CHAIRPERSON: What is the next matter to be heard Ms Patel?
MS PATEL: Honourable Chairperson, there are two matters that are ready. The next matter is that of Ngesi. We also have the matter of Mpotso and Molefe. I don't believe the matter of Ngesi should take too long, I suggest that we start with that one, subject to Mr Mbandazayo's views on the matter of course.
CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mbandazayo, which matter do you want to commence with?
MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you Chair person, I would like to start with Mr Ngesi's matter, but Chairperson, if I can be given just five minutes for him to sign the affidavit which have not been signed by him.
CHAIRPERSON: You are given five minutes. Will you just inform us when you are ready?
MR MBANDAZAYO: Yes Chairperson, it is just his signature, I wanted to confirm the affidavit.
CHAIRPERSON: We will then adjourn for five minutes.
MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
CHAIRPERSON: Ms Patel, what is the position now?
MS PATEL: Thank you Honourable Chairperson. The next matter to be called is that of Mpotso and Molefe.
CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mbandazayo?
MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you Chairperson. Chairperson, this matter, I confirm that this is the matter of Mpotso and Molefe and I am representing both of them.
Chairperson and Honourable members of the Committee, I have consulted with the two applicants. They have decided to withdraw their applications, and I would like the Committee for the purposes of the record, to let them confirm that on their own. Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON: Kwanile Richard Mpotso, are you Kwanile Richard Mpotso?
MR MPOTSO: Yes.
CHAIRPERSON: You have heard that your legal representative has stated that you wish to withdraw your application. Do you confirm that?
MR MPOTSO: Yes, that is correct.
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Lunyise Terrence Molefe, do you also confirm what has been stated by your legal representative that you wish to withdraw your application?
MR MOLEFE: Yes, that is correct, and I would like to explain why I am withdrawing my application.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes, you may do so.
MR MOLEFE: We have applied in 1996 and today it is 1999. In four months' time, we would be released from prison, so I think it would be just wasting our time to come forward here and testify because we have finished our sentence.
We have waited a long time to come and appear here, and we have almost finished our sentence. The Committee has taken a long time, especially concerning the application of the Africans, to call them forward.
I think that the reason why this Committee has called us forward, is because they know that Kwanile and Mlungise are going to be released soon, now they are calling us. It is just a waste of time for us, Kwanile to come forward here and tell you what we did and who gave us that order. That will be wasting our time, because we have almost completed our sentence.
I would like the Committee to listen very carefully to me, because there are other Africans in prison that are waiting as we were waiting. They are living there in bad conditions.
I would like the Committee to take note of that, to take note of their applications, so that they can be called forward, so that what happened to us, cannot happen to them, because it is a very bad thing to happen, thank you.
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Molefe. May we just bring it to your attention that we are obliged by the provisions of the Act which is governing this process, to give priority to applicants who are in custody.
The Truth Commission's Amnesty Committee, has at all times given priority to applicants in custody. As you are aware, we have already considered applications not only of PAC members, but also of other liberation movements, whose members are in prison.
Your application is not in the list, the first to the be heard by the Amnesty Committee. There hasn't been any delay in processing applications of prisoners by the Amnesty Committee.
This Committee has spent sleepless nights, our forever diligent staff has made sure that they work overtime which is unpaid for in order to meet the objective of the Act in ensuring that applicants who are in custody, are given preference.
As it is, a number of applicants who are not in custody, have not yet been heard because preference is being given to people who are in custody.
I think it should be made patently clear to all and sundry that the Amnesty Committee has received not less than 7 000 applications and it has already processed a significant number of the applications, considering the fact that we are sitting with over 7 000 applications.
Secondly I think it is important for applicants to know that this process is not to enable people to walk out of prison. The primary objective of the Commission's process is to ensure that a broader picture of what happened in the past, is put into place.
The small effort that is being given by the Amnesty Committee is to ensure that at least people who are likely to be charged with what then were offences, cannot be charged, by giving them an opportunity to apply. You need not apply because you are in jail, you need to apply because you were involved in the struggle, and your involvement involved the conflict of the past.
If you have not yet been convicted and there is no likelihood of you being convicted in terms of the broader political objective, it is important for people to apply to enable the Commission to piece together a broader picture of the causes of the conflict of the past.
We would urge people who want to come forward to the Amnesty Committee, to have their applications heard, not because they are about to be released from prison. I am not sure whether you were sitting here when we heard the application of Mr Mfazo, who has just completed serving his sentence. He came forward, he proceeded with his application notwithstanding.
The provisions of the Act may provide for offences to be expunged, so even if you have already served your sentence, you don't want to sit with a conscience of an offence that you never committed, simply because it is an offence in terms of the then process.
You want to sit with a conscience that you committed an offence, which was politically related, which can then be expunged from your records. If the reason why you are withdrawing is because you are about to be released, I think your counsel should give you proper legal advise, that that is not the only reason for you to withdraw.
You can withdraw for any other reason, because it is important for your record to be expunged. Mr Mbandazayo, I don't know whether you did advise your clients about that aspect and whether we can still accept their withdrawal if it is based only on the fact that their application has been heard late.
MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you Chairperson and Honourable members of the Committee, the applicants are well aware of the situation. I have explained to them as I have explained to Mr Mfazo who was in Noupoort and I explained to him, and he came. He did not want to come and I explained to him, and I did with the applicants.
Chairperson and Honourable members of the Committee, I am of the view that the Committee should accept the withdrawal of the applicants.
CHAIRPERSON: I think having made our position clear, we have no option if they still want to withdraw, to accept their withdrawal.
The application of Mr Kwanile Richard Mpotso and Mlungise Terrence Molefe is hereby WITHDRAWN.
