MR FOURIE: Then I call Mr Ndlovu, the other applicant in this matter.
CHAIRPERSON: Mr Ndlovu, do you have any objection to taking the oath?
MR NDLOVU: No sir, I have no objection.
HLUPHEKA MORRIS NDLOVU: (sworn states)
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Mr Fourie, we have heard the evidence of Mr Mulaudzi, I don't think it would be necessary for this witness to repeat all the facts which are probably common cause between them, perhaps if you can approach it on the basis that if he wishes to confirm what Mr Mulaudzi said and if he has anything to add, that he may do so, but I don't think we need go through the whole issue again.
EXAMINATION BY MR FOURIE: Thank you Mr Chairperson, I agree. Mr Ndlovu, let me just put it to you in this way, you also stay in the same area, Gazankula, Malamolela and you stay there since 1969 till 1993 when you were arrested, is that so?
MR NDLOVU: That is correct sir.
MR FOURIE: And do you confirm, you have heard the evidence of the previous applicant, do you confirm what he is saying regarding the plan and all the issues in which you were involved?
MR NDLOVU: Yes, I do in regard to the statement we wrote, both of us.
CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, Mr Ndlovu, were you at that time a member of the ANC?
MR NDLOVU: Yes, I was a member of the ANC.
MR FOURIE: Why did you go with him on this mission?
MR NDLOVU: We were going to fetch firearms.
MR FOURIE: What was your purpose for this, for this mission? Why did you want to go and fetch firearms?
MR NDLOVU: At all times we were together, we had the same idea of opening a branch of the ANC within our locality and then when he told me about the instructions from Mr Nkuna, I was willing to help him to go to Mozambique because I was also a member of the ANC.
MR FOURIE: Were you aware of the problems and violence in Katlehong?
MR NDLOVU: At the time when Mr Nkuna returned home, I began to know that there was violence in the East Rand, but otherwise before I only learnt about those violence through TV and the newspapers and radio.
MR FOURIE: What was your main goal to achieve by going to fetch the firearms?
MR NDLOVU: It was to protect the community, we were going to hand them over to Mr Nkuna and he would take them to Katlehong to protect the community.
MR FOURIE: The community that you are talking about, to protect the community, which community are you talking about?
MR NDLOVU: That is the ANC community.
MR FOURIE: Would you have gained financially from this?
MR NDLOVU: No sir.
MR FOURIE: Did you respect Mr Nkuna?
MR NDLOVU: Yes, I was respecting him.
MR FOURIE: Were you aware of the fact that he was an MK member as well?
MR NDLOVU: Yes, I knew.
MR FOURIE: Do you regret what you did?
MR NDLOVU: Yes, I regret because I went to Mozambique to fetch firearms and because one gun can kill many people.
MR FOURIE: Thank you Mr Chairperson.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR FOURIE
CHAIRPERSON: Do you have any questions Ms Mtanga?
MS MTANGA: No questions, Mr Chair.
NO CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS MTANGA
CHAIRPERSON: Adv Gcabashe, do you have any questions? Mr Lax?
MR LAX: No Chair.
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Ndlovu, that is your testimony.
WITNESS EXCUSED
CHAIRPERSON: Mr Fourie, do you have any submissions or do you have any further witnesses to call?
MR FOURIE: I've got no further witnesses to call, thank you.
CHAIRPERSON: Ms Mtanga?
MS MTANGA: No further evidence Mr Chairperson.
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, that then concludes the evidence in this matter, do you have any submissions, Mr Fourie?
MR FOURIE IN ARGUMENT: Thank you Mr Chairperson. Although these two applicants were raised in a peaceful area, as they testified they learnt that there was a conflict between the ANC, the IFP and the Police and they were of the opinion that the Police supported the IFP in the Katlehong area and they were informed by Mr Nkuna that they can contribute to this by getting the firearms and to assist the ANC in their struggle against the IFP and the Police.
As they already said they became members of the ANC, they were members and they tried to assist the ANC in the struggle against apartheid and against the killing of all the people, the people from the ANC which were killed during that time. They also testified that they were commanded or ordered by a respected member of the community to do this and as they respected this man, that is the reason as to why they followed his order and completed the mission.
He was also told that by doing this, he would especially, this would especially benefit the people, the black people of his community and the ANC, by providing the weapons to them. It is clear from the facts that they had a political motive by supplying weapons to the ANC for the struggle against apartheid and the context in which this took place, it is clear that he was raised and the whole conflict between the ANC and IFP had a big influence on him doing this. He did this out of a political perspective.
He acknowledged the fact and he is aware that it was illegal and he regrets for what he did, both of them. It is clear that this offence was as I already said primarily directed at a political opponent and they both testified that they did not gain financially from this. This offence was committed before the election and it was their main goal to gain or to do this for the struggle towards a democratic society. My submission is that their act falls within the criteria of the Act and I therefore request the Committee to grant them both amnesty. Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Fourie, any submissions Ms Mtanga?
MS MTANGA: No submissions from me, Chairperson.
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much. Then that concludes the hearing, we will reserve our decision and hope that it will be handed down in the near future. Thank you very much. Ms Mtanga, we have one more matter on the roll, I think this would probably be an opportune time to take an adjournment now, perhaps have a delayed tea and then if we could commence with the other application as soon as possible please. You can let us know what the situation is, whether all the people are available and then we can start. Thank you. We will take an adjournment now, thank you.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
