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Human Rights Violation Hearings


Starting Date 25 March 1997





MS MAYA: You were also a member of Congo in the 1960's and in your statement you were also present at the Ngquza incident but fortunately you were not killed and you were arrested in 1970. At the time of your arrest in 1970 why were you arrested at this time?

MR NAGI: We were arrested because the boers wanted to know, the people who crossed the border to Zambia. These people were Diliza Ghandi and others.

MS MAYA: They wanted you to say that you helped them escape

MR NAGI: Yes, they said that they escaped from my home.

MS MAYA: What happened when you were arrested in 1970?

MR NAGI: When I was arrested I was taken by a police van. I was together with my brother. We were in different police vans. In the morning I was taken to a tent and I was hand-cuffed.

MS MAYA: How long did this happen?

MR NAGI: I was hand-cuffed from 5 a.m. to 5 p.m.

MS MAYA: Were you hanging?

MR NAGI: Yes, I was left hanging and one boer, Truter from Pretoria would come and smoke and watch me and beat me. He was beating me with a baton.

MS MAYA: And what happened?

MR NAGI: They came back at 5 p.m. and they released me.

MS MAYA: How long did you stay in prison, Sir?

MR NAGI: In Kambati, I stayed there for four months.

MS MAYA: In your statement you mentioned that you were arrested in Umgundlovo.

MR NAGI: Yes, after they have beaten me up, the following morning they took a tube and placed it in my mouth, in my face. One would come on my back and this tube would be in my face for a long time and they would kick me and I would fall down.

This woman's father, who is sitting here next to me, we were together in this prison.

All this was happening in Kambati.

MS MAYA: When did you go to Umgundlovo?

MR NAGI: After these four months and I stayed there for six months.

MS MAYA: What happened in Umgundlovo?

MR NAGI: They were not beating us up in Umgundlovo. And the police would ask you if you had been beaten up before. If you said no, they would send you in another cell. If you said yes, they would send you in a different cell.

MS MAYA: Do you know why they were putting you in different cells?

MR NAGI: I think that they were putting us in different cells, because they did not want us to tell each other what question we had been asked.

MS MAYA: Did you go to any court of law?

MR NAGI: No, we did not go to any court of law.

MS MAYA: Sir, when you started talking you said that you were taken together with your brother. What happened to him?

MR NAGI: He was arrested and he was sentenced for seven

years. And he stayed in prison for two years and three months.

MS MAYA: For which charge was he sentenced?

MR NAGI: He was charged for helping people to escape and cross the border to Zambia.

MS MAYA: What is his name?

MR NAGI: His name is Mphanga Nagi?

MS MAYA: Did you make a statement on his behalf?

MR NAGI: Yes, I did.

MS MAYA: Do you have a request to the Commission?

MR NAGI: Yes I have a request to the Commission that we fought for this Government and we are still fighting for this Government.

MS MAYA: In other words what would you like the Government to do?

MR NAGI: I would like the Government to build a monument for the Ngquza victims.

MS MAYA: Thank you Sir. Is that all you want to say?

MR NAGI: I also have a request to the Commission to build roads for us, because we cannot get to Ngquza, because of bad roads.

MS MAYA: Thank you. I will hand over to the Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Poyinda can you hear me? There is something I do not see in your statement. Maybe you can clarify this matter. When you were arrested in 1971 is this connected to the Ngquza incident?

MR NAGI: I was arrested after the incident, the Ngquza incident.

CHAIRPERSON: Were there any other people who were arrested in 1970 with you?

MR NAGI: Yes, Kathla Macani and others have passed away.

CHAIRPERSON: What is the connection between your arrest in 1970 and the Ngquza incident?

MR NAGI: The police would come to our houses at night while we were sleeping and they would search for everything. They would search everything in our houses.

CHAIRPERSON: When you were questioned in the prison were there any connection between the questioning and the Ngquza incident?

MR NAGI: They were asking where Dilisa is.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. You may step down.

And we now call Mavis Gazula, Bekabantu Qalanyobe, Nelson Jinineka, Mvelwa Chushelwa, Nconono Mabel Nondabula, Norma Kabishi Mbwana, Nokwanda Nora Mayidume, David Zifokofe Silangwe, Nelsie Mtutuse Mayidume.

I would like to swear you in.

Mr Chairperson they have been properly sworn in.

The evidence that we led yesterday was about the Ngquza incident. We looked at this incident quite closely yesterday, in detail. You were supposed to have testified yesterday, but because we had a problem with electricity we could not continue with you.

What we needed to do yesterday is that some more evidence had to be given for a fuller picture. This is what we are going to do. We are not going from mountain to mountain with the meetings that you had.

The evidence that you are aware, that you have already given is there something that you would like to add? Perhaps each of you would get up and say that there is nothing new that I would like to add or there is something I would like to add.

Do we understand each other?

If there is something new to add please do not be shy, get up and tell us. Perhaps you would like to say that in all the evidence that has been given before the Commission there is something that has not been mentioned that I would like to mention.

This is how we are going to conduct this matter.

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