CHAIRPERSON: ... both of you could you just stand up. First we have these issues to, we hope that can those who understand more especially African languages, give that have them for the moment, can they give a chance to those who do not understand any of the languages, you know, to have chance, you know, to use these things. Yesterday, I remember, you know, Archbishop had to say we give a ruling. Let young ones not even have them at all, but we would request that, you know, we have this kind of sharing.
I have here with me from my extreme left Professor Piet Meiring, a committee member of the Reparations and Rehabilitation Committee. Next to him Dr Russell Ally, a committee member of Human Rights Violations Committee and then next to me Wynand Malan, member of the Human Rights Violations Committee. Then we have Hugh Lewin on my right. He is a committee member of the Human Rights Violations Committee too. So that is the position.
MR MALAN: And yourself.
CHAIRPERSON: Okay, I am a Thomas Manthata, member of the Reparations and Rehabilitations Committee. I will request Wynand Malan to read to us the names of those who will be witnessing today.
MR MALAN: We will be hearing evidence this morning from the following witnesses, you have the programme. Most of you
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will have it, it is available. First witness will be Piet Mothupi who will testify on Daniel Mothupi who was shot and killed in 1986. The second witness will be Selina Makao Baloyi who will give evidence on her own account on arson and attempted murder the same year. Then still in the same year Mrs Lukhele who will give evidence on Elizabeth Dludlu and David Lukhele on a shooting, wounding and a killing in 1986. We will, hopefully, more or less then be able to break for tea after which we will hear Mrs Morudu on Moss Morudu, a disappearance in 1987. The next will be Mr Godfrey Motsepe who will give evidence on an attempted assassination in exile, 1988. Then William Phatlane will give evidence on Lucky Joseph Phatlane, a murder in 1990. Mr Sakkie Morare then on Isaac Sakkie Morare shot and wounded 1990. We hope to be able to be break for lunch at about one o' clock resuming at two we will be getting Mrs Mary Shongwe who will be giving evidence on the killing of her husband, Mr David Shongwe. Then Mr Tuka Piet Tshoba will give evidence on the killing of Jan Tshoba. James Allan Petros Barton will give evidence on a bombing and an attempted murder where he himself was involved and Mrs Maria Makgatho will be giving evidence on Rufus Ramaboya Makgatho, a murder that took place in 1993, right towards the end of the period that we are looking into. Thank you Mr Chairman.
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Wynand, Wynand, our first witness to take the stand is going to be Piet Mothupi. Is that Mothupi? Yes, is Mr Mothupi. Mr Mothupi, would you please take the stand? Mr Mothupi, we would ask you to relax, know that you are at home here and before we start I would ask Wynand to let you take the oath.
MR MALAN: Mr Mothupi, will you please stand. Raise your
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right hand and then take the oath. If you will please stand, if you could.
PIET MOTHUPI: (Duly sworn in, states).
MR MALAN: Thank you very much. You may be seated.
MR MOTHUPI: Okay.
CHAIRPERSON: Sorry. I will be asking questions and guiding you whilst you tell your story. I would request you to tell us about what happened to your son. Would you be telling your story in Sotho or English.
MR MOTHUPI: I will be giving my story in Sotho.
CHAIRPERSON: You may continue.
MR MOTHUPI: It was in 1986 during February on the tenth. When I woke up that morning I was preparing myself to go to work. I left my son washing himself. He was preparing to go to school. Then I left for work. When I arrived at work, whilst busy with my work at about after 12 I received a telephone call at work. They said I must leave work and go home because my child has passed away. That shocked me. What was wrong with him. They told me to leave work and go home.
We arrived at home, I arrived at home at about quarter past four. It was true, he had passed away. We have been questioning ourselves as to what happened. It transpired that they left school, but forcefully so. Instead of going home he did not. They were around the streets and then someone in a car drove past by and then shot at them at random. Unfortunately, he shot my son. As he fell down some of them ran away. He never knew what hit him. After that white man passed they tried to wake him up, but they failed. Then they tried to get him on a taxi for the hospital. Then he passed away.
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The following day we went to the hospital to check on him. We were informed that he did not sleep at the hospital, he was at the Government Mortuary. We went to the Government Mortuary and then we found him there. Well, it was evident that he had passed away. I took his clothes, took them home. I asked them if I could not take him today. They said I must come and take him before that night. So I tried to talk to the Commander so that we can take my son's body. We went to the Government Mortuary demanding the corpse, so they refused. They said he is still bleeding, they cannot release him to us. I asked them, you said yesterday that we will pay him rent if he stays here, but they said to me I can leave, but they will keep on informing us as to when we come and collect the corpse.
After some days a white and a black man came to my place. They said we have released the corpse so that you can have it at home, but he must not enter the yard. He will be taken to Komanie's Mortuary. They refused us to take him to our place. Komanie came and take him to his mortuary, but he did tell me that I have your son's corpse. I agreed that he must take the corpse to his mortuary. I timeously went to Komanie's Mortuary to check on my son's corpse until they agreed that I must go and bury him. That is what I can remember.
CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mothupi, you say here your children were forcefully removed from school. What was the reason or the cause?
MR MOTHUPI: There were children who did not attend school. Two schools were involved here. They did not attend school. My son was attending Mboweni School. Others from the next school stormed into this other school to take the kids out
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of that school yard.
CHAIRPERSON: Were they forcefully removed from school by children from the next school?
MR MOTHUPI: Yes, it is so.
CHAIRPERSON: What was the reason for them doing so?
MR MOTHUPI: As they did not attend school they wanted everybody not to attend school. Everybody must be the same.
CHAIRPERSON: As parents did you not like to know why children boycotted school during those days?
MR MOTHUPI: We were not present because we attended our daily businesses. We had work some of us. We did not know what happened at home whilst we were not present.
CHAIRPERSON: This policeman who shot your son did you know his name?
MR MOTHUPI: Yes, they did inform us as to his name, but I forgot his name because it was a long time ago. They did mention the name in court. He was involved in a case with another boy who saw him. The boy witnessed when this policeman shot at this group. These boys ran away to ask for help from the teachers that Daniel Mothupi has been shot. They then went to the police station in the company of their teachers. However, the Principal has since passed away. Asking why did this policeman shoot this boy. When they arrived at the police station they met the same white man. After six years of six months they called us or summoned us to court. That is when we first saw this man who shot my son.
CHAIRPERSON: How many children do you have except the one who died?
MR MOTHUPI: I have two boys and one daughter.
CHAIRPERSON: Except the one who died, who is Daniel?
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MR MOTHUPI: Yes, that is correct.
CHAIRPERSON: No further questions. I am going to direct further questions from my fellow committee members on this thing.
DR ALLY: Good morning Mr Mothupi.
MR MOTHUPI: Good morning to you Sir.
DR ALLY: The court inquest was held in Pretoria and you said that in the court inquest the decision of the court was that the shooting of my son was justified as a public violence case. Do you know what was happening in Atteridgeville on that day that the court decided that it was a public violence case? Can you just tell us a little bit? Sorry, did you not hear me? I do not think the translation is coming through. Let me repeat the question. You can hear me now?
MR MOTHUPI: Yes, I can hear you.
DR ALLY: At the court inquest it was said that the shooting of your son was justified as a public violence case. Do you know what was happening in Atteridgeville?
MR MOTHUPI: Yes, that is what they explained. They explained that there is a civil violence that occurred which resulted in my son's shooting.
DR ALLY: Do you know if anything was happening in Atteridgeville on that day? Was there any confrontation between police and students, so called riots? Was anything happening on that day that you are aware of?
MR MOTHUPI: At that time they were using, policemen were using teargas because students used old vehicles to block the roads. Some prevented people from going to work. It was during those violent times.
DR ALLY: And your son, I know he was only 13 years at the
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time, but was your son in any way involved in any of this political activity?
MR MOTHUPI: No, he did not have any contribution.
DR ALLY: Thank you Sir.
PROF MEIRING: Mr Mothupi, your son has died. During those difficult years many children were killed in the crossfire, sometimes by the police. What advice do you have for the Truth Commission. What can we do to help the parents of those children who died, to ease the pain.
MR MOTHUPI: I would be lying if I would attempt to say anything. I do not know what to say. I get very emotional with respect to this issue. I do not know what to say at all.
PROF MEIRING: Thank you Mr Mothupi.
MR LEWIN: Thank you Mr Chairman. Mr Mothupi, in your statement you talked about the fact that the policeman was alone in the car when your son was shot and you also say that he used, the policeman, that is used his own pistol, not his service pistol. Could you tell us some more about that and how you got this information please?
MR MOTHUPI: Yes I will. According to this man's explanation in court, he said he came across these boys, they had already placed tyres blocking the roads. He was supposed to go to work at the Atteridgeville Police Station. He tried to scare these boys. He thought maybe they are going to stone his car. Then he pulled out his trigger and pointed it out through the window. That is when he started shooting because they asked him at court why did you shoot at these children instead of turning back. Then he explained that the place was small, he could not turn back. They did ask him as to that in court. He decided just to
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shoot at them so that he could pass away, pass through that blockade. Then that is what happened.
MR LEWIN: Sorry, could I just get this clear. In court at the inquest he actually admitted to the shooting?
MR MOTHUPI: Yes, he did say that he used his pistol to shoot at those children whilst driving his car. As he saw them he started loading his gun. Then they asked him why, how could you load your gun whilst you are driving. He said he loaded the gun, he managed to. Then that is when he started shooting. That is why they asked him how could you load your gun whilst driving. That is what I heard when they interrogated him.
MR LEWIN: You were at the court, what was his attitude? How did he seem to feel about the fact that, how did he feel about the fact that he had killed somebody, a child?
MR MOTHUPI: According to his explanation he said he had 20 years service in the police. As I saw him he wanted to go to the hall. He was almost an older person.
MR LEWIN: Sorry, I do not quite understand. That was translated as he wanted to go the hall. He wanted to retire.
MR MOTHUPI: He was nearing pension. He was almost towards receiving his pension. He was very old. At any time he would go to pension as I saw him.
MR LEWIN: Could I ask, this is possibly a difficult question. How did you feel about him then and how do you feel about him now, about ten years later?
MR MOTHUPI: I got hurt because my son has died. What else can I do. I have lost my son. There is nothing that I can do.
MR LEWIN: Thank you Mr Mothupi.
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CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mothupi, we thank you for your presence and telling us your story and then for you having explained your sorrow to us. This affects the whole family. You have given us an example. We will try to make follow-ups and find the name of this person who shot your son and see what we can do for what he has done. You have already mentioned that you have lost your son, there is nothing that you can do. It is true from where we come from you are not the only one who has lost a son, but we understand that you personally feel the pain. However, we will try to help you in any way we can. Although it will take us some time we will be in contact with you timeously. We sympathise with you for the pain you have suffered. We thank you and please pass our condolences to the family at large.
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