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PassExplanation DR RANDERA: Dr Goosen can we just not pass this issue about mistake. When people say it was a mistake and these conversations took place, can you be more precise about that. Because was it a mistake or was it a belief system, a culture that prevailed at the time that said you know, black people ... ... to me last, we were just talking about the past and he said, you don’t know my child the humiliation that we went through when we went to take the pass. He said to me they would go there and then one or - the males and then they were supposed to be naked and he said there were 30 year olds and ... ... such and such a place, or yesterday we did this and that and tomorrow we have to do this and that and we have to close this road and if the police pass here we have to dig big holes so that police Casspirs can fall in there and we can throw petrol bombs there", that's how stupid they were at ... ... a satisfactory basis what their motive was, what the circumstances were, what the special objective was and whether or not it was proportional. To pass the buck the way they all did here from the lowest to the highest is evidence of the fact that they were not bona fide, that they merely entered ... MR MBANDAZAYO: Can you tell the Committee to which standard - which standard did you pass at school? MR MBANDAZAYO: No, Chairperson, in fact I will pass that one. Let met - my last point to ask you, do you know the motto of the PAC? ... proportionality as the Act charges us to do, Mr Chairman within the context of the conflict of the past, this particular matter certainly must pass that test of proportionality and for that statement, for that submission we rely on previous amnesty applications and decisions handed down by ... the military vehicles around that area. They were moving I think between Block H and Block F in Soshanguve and one of the military vehicles used to pass there. I went to Ting-Ting and briefed him about this and on the particular day we went there during the day to show Ting-Ting the spot and get ... MS GCABASHE: Yes, but what did you then pass on to your men, you know, you had no timeframes, you knew you did not want to injure persons, that was the instruction, when would this have to be done to make sure that these things in fact did not happen, you know, people were not injured? ... hiding but still looking after it so that when you realise that this is not a person who is attacking you should remove it so that the person can pass. It so happened in many times in the past that this thing of judging others racially and referring to people as Xhosas and Zulus, that shall be ... MR NADASEN: Thank you. Mr Mdletshe, you said that, did you complete standard 3, did you pass standard 3? ... place. We can't judge whether they were on a frolic on their own or not, by Cronje or Hechter, they have no knowledge of this incident. They can pass no judgement on that incident and I think the evidence is that they were reliable people in general and they should accept their word or what ... MR KGOTSA: He was at a distance so as to protect me and to disturb people who may pass by. |