CHAIRPERSON: Are you calling Mr Makoma?
MR ARENDSE: That's correct Mr Chairperson.
GCINIKHAYA MAKOMA: (sworn states)
CHAIRPERSON: Yes, please proceed.
EXAMINATION BY MR ARENDSE: Thank you Chairperson.
Mr Makoma, where are you staying at the moment?
MR MAKOMA: I stay at Khayelitsha, Site C.
MR ARENDSE: Do you work?
MR MAKOMA: No, I'm unemployed.
MR ARENDSE: Are you doing anything useful?
MR MAKOMA: I'm studying, I'm corresponding standard ten with a certain college.
MR ARENDSE: What is that college's name?
MR MAKOMA: It's Lyceum College.
MR ARENDSE: How old are you now?
MR MAKOMA: I'm 22 years old.
MR ARENDSE: Now you were involved in an incident with Walter Tanda.
MR MAKOMA: Yes.
MR ARENDSE: In 1992, is that right?
MR MAKOMA: Yes.
MR ARENDSE: At that time you would have been 16, is that right?
MR MAKOMA: Yes, that's correct.
MR ARENDSE: At the time, were you a member of the PAC?
MR MAKOMA: Yes, that is correct.
MR ARENDSE: Were you a member of APLA?
MR MAKOMA: No, I was only a member of the task force.
MR ARENDSE: The PAC task force or APLA task force?
MR MAKOMA: The PAC task force, that was the defence unit of the PAC that was being trained by the members of APLA.
MR ARENDSE: Who was the commander of the task force you were a member of?
MR MAKOMA: It was Tanda.
MR ARENDSE: Did he recruit you to join this task force?
MR MAKOMA: Yes, I was recruited by him.
MR ARENDSE: Were you - tell us about, were you at school at the time?
MR MAKOMA: Yes, I was still at school, I was doing standard seven.
MR ARENDSE: Now, this particular incident at Khayelitsha, when did you first become involved in it and how did you become involved in it?
MR MAKOMA: Tanda came at my home, he asked me to go with him as a member of the PAC and as a person who was in the leadership, that was the normal thing for me to do. We went to a certain house at Site C where we found two comrades. He introduced them as PAC members and he told them that I was also a member of PAC.
MR ARENDSE: Did they have names and if so, what were their names? Did he introduce them to you by name or code-name?
MR MAKOMA: He introduced them as members of PAC, he never mentioned their names.
MR ARENDSE: Did you ask their names?
MR MAKOMA: No, I never asked.
MR ARENDSE: Why not, isn't that odd?
MR MAKOMA: It is not a normal thing to do, to know the people with their names. If you are told that these comrades are members of PAC, that should satisfy you. I was not interested in knowing their names.
MR ARENDSE: After you were introduced, what happened then?
MR MAKOMA: Tanda left the house and he said he was coming back.
MR ARENDSE: And he came back?
MR MAKOMA: Yes, he came back.
MR ARENDSE: Did he come back with anything?
MR MAKOMA: He came with a bag, a blue bag with firearms inside.
MR ARENDSE: Did you get a firearm?
MR MAKOMA: Yes, I got an AK47.
MR ARENDSE: Were you going to do anything with this AK47?
MR MAKOMA: He told us after some time that we are going to do something because we checked these firearms, if they were working properly.
MR ARENDSE: Before this, did you handle a firearm before this particular or before he gave the AK47 to you?
MR MAKOMA: Yes, I once handled a firearm.
MR ARENDSE: And that was during training I take it?
MR MAKOMA: Yes.
MR ARENDSE: This particular operation, had you been on one like this before or was this your first operation?
MR MAKOMA: That was my first operation.
MR ARENDSE: Did he tell you that you were now going to carry out an operation, this is now Tanda?
MR MAKOMA: Yes, he told us that there is a work that we are going to do.
MR ARENDSE: Did he tell you when it was going to happen, where it was going to happen, who was going to be the object of this operation? Did he give you any details?
MR MAKOMA: No, he never gave details.
MR ARENDSE: So what did you do then, did you leave the place?
MR MAKOMA: Yes, he told us to leave the house and we all left together.
MR ARENDSE: And where did you go to?
MR MAKOMA: We went - we took a direction to Site B, we took the road coming from Site B, we went to Site C. We took a road from Site B to Site C.
MR ARENDSE: Were you on foot or did you drive?
MR MAKOMA: We were on foot.
MR ARENDSE: And when you got to Site C, what happened?
MR MAKOMA: He instructed me - as I was standing next to this road from Site C to Site B on the left-hand site, he instructed me to stand there and if I see the police van I was to give a warning by shooting only once with this AK47.
MR ARENDSE: And did you do so, did you shoot once?
MR MAKOMA: The van never appeared from my direction, it appeared from another direction.
MR ARENDSE: And what happened?
MR MAKOMA: There were gunshots, a lot of them followed, a lot of gunshots and a van passed next to me and it stopped at a distance and Tanda gave an instruction for us to leave the place. We went back to the veld and through the veld we went to Site C.
MR ARENDSE: Did you fire any shots?
MR MAKOMA: No.
MR ARENDSE: Do you know who fired the shots?
MR MAKOMA: It's Tanda and the other comrades, but I don't know among them who shot but I know that they were the people who were shooting because they also had firearms.
MR ARENDSE: Do you know whether anyone was injured or killed during the attack or as a result of the attack?
MR MAKOMA: No, I do not know.
MR ARENDSE: Why did you form part of the attack, why did you become part of the operation? What motivated you to become part of the operation?
MR MAKOMA: As Tanda was the leader of the task and as a member of the PAC, when he came to me and instructed me to do something I went there willingly because I knew that I had a perception that this is done to further the aims of PAC.
MR ARENDSE: Now you - and I'm referring here Chairperson, to page 39 of the bundle.
You also applied for amnesty in respect of the attack on the St James Church in July 1993, is that correct?
MR MAKOMA: Yes, that is so.
MR ARENDSE: You made an application there and also a full disclosure and also motivated why you were involved in that attack, you can remember that?
MR MAKOMA: Yes, I do remember.
MR ARENDSE: And you've been granted amnesty in respect of that incident?
MR MAKOMA: Yes, that is so.
MR ARENDSE: This particular incident, were you arrested at all? Did you appear in court?
MR MAKOMA: No, I was never arrested and I never appeared in court.
MR ARENDSE: No further questions, Chairperson.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR ARENDSE
CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mapoma, any questions?
MR MAPOMA: Just one Chairperson.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR MAPOMA: Mr Makoma, why do you apply for amnesty for this incident, you never shot anyone?
MR MAKOMA: I'm applying for amnesty because I was there, even though I didn't shoot anyone.
MR MAPOMA: Do you associate yourself with the shooting that took place on that day?
MR MAKOMA: Yes.
MR MAPOMA: Thank you, no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MAPOMA
ADV SANDI: Has anyone been able to ascertain what the police docket has got to say about this, what is contained in it? Were there any victims?
MR ARENDSE: Advocate Sandi, no.
MR MAPOMA: Yes, I confirm Chairperson, there appears to be no victim in this matter.
DR TSOTSI: Did I understand you to say that you belong to APLA task force, not the PAC task force?
MR MAKOMA: I said, at the time I was a member of PAC and I was also a member of the task force that was being trained by the APLA members in order to defend PAC members.
DR TSOTSI: I see.
CHAIRPERSON: Do you draw a distinction between being a member of the task force of the PAC on the one hand and of APLA on the other? Is there a difference between the task force of the PAC and the task force of APLA?
MR MAKOMA: PAC is a political organisation and APLA is a military wing and a task force is a defence unit but all of them consists of members of the PAC.
CHAIRPERSON: When you say that you're a member of the task force, it would be the task force of APLA or PAC, it's one and the same thing, is that it?
MR MAKOMA: It is a task force of PAC.
CHAIRPERSON: Any questions?
Yes, thank you very much, you are excused.
Unless you have questions to put?
MR ARENDSE: No, I don't.
MR MAKOMA: Thank you.
WITNESS EXCUSED
MR ARENDSE: Chairperson, is this perhaps a convenient point to adjourn before we begin with Mr Shiceka, it's four incidents.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes, can we make an early beginning please. I've lost a lot of time in this matter. I'd like to have a shorter break for lunch.
MR ARENDSE: As you please Chairperson.
CHAIRPERSON: We'll break for 45 minutes, Mr Zuko.
MR MAPOMA: Yes, Chairperson.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
