MS BURTON
We call to the stage now our next two witnesses, Mkhonto Mfazwe and Monwabisi Maseti. We have asked you to come to the - we have asked you to come to the stage together because from reading the statements that you have made, we are aware that your experiences are fairly similar and that your testimonies will complement one another, so we welcome you and thank you very much for coming. May I ask you to stand and swear the oath please. First one and then the other.
MKOHNTO MFAZWE Duly sworn states
MONWABISI MASETI Duly sworn states
MS BURTON
Advocate Potgieter will facilitate your testimonies.
ADV POTGIETER
Mr Maseti, Mr Mfazwe, good morning again and welcome. I think will start with Mr Maseti, you are in front of the microphone, so we will listen to your evidence first and then we will deal with Mr Mfazwe.
Now as the Chairperson has indicated - your - you are both from Noupoort and your experiences are very, very much identical. Happened also roughly at about the same time and that is why we’ve got you both together, but we will start with you Mr Maseti.
Thank you very much. I am going to move to Mr Mfazwe and we listen to his testimony before I hand back to the Chairperson. And they might want to ask you some further questions Mr Maseti, but we will hear from [indistinct].
Mr Mfazwe good morning again. Won’t you try to sit a little bit close to the microphone - then your voice will become a bit louder and everybody can hear.
Now you as well as we’ve said earlier - you’re also from Noupoort were detained in August of 1985, is that correct?
MKOHNTO MFAZWE
Yes, I was detained in 1985 August. They kept on coming to fetch me from home - interrogating me about NOYCO. They asked what NOYCO stands for. I used to answer and tell them that they mustn’t ask me that because they’ve got the constitution. They would show me document with the executive members of NOYCO. They asked me if I was an executive member. I said yes. They said that there are two constitutions of NOYCO. They do not have the correct one. I asked them whether this - which on was the correct one as they thought. They would not reply. They would take me to the police station and torture me. Take me home and take me back again.
Sometimes they would detain me for two weeks. I would go through the same process. If I would not know what they requested, they would torture me.
ADV POTGIETER
In 1985 when you were detained - what were you doing.
MKOHNTO MFAZWE
I was at school. I was sixteen years of age.
ADV POTGIETER
Now were you - you were detained and you were questioned and you were assaulted. Were you ever charged in 85 for anything.
MKOHNTO MFAZWE
I was never charged - all the time I was never charged.
ADV POTGIETER
With this - your detention and the assaults and the tortures during 1985 [indistinct].
MKOHNTO MFAZWE
It was Mr Maliti.
ADV POTGIETER
Is he from - is he a policeman from Noupoort.
MKOHNTO MFAZWE
No.
ADV POTGIETER
Where is he from.
MKOHNTO MFAZWE
Are you talking about the police.
ADV POTGIETER
Ja, I’m talking about this Mr Maliti.
MKOHNTO MFAZWE
He worked in Middleburg, but I think he was born in Noupoort.
ADV POTGIETER
Tell me, was he a security policeman - security branch.
MKOHNTO MFAZWE
He was a security police. He was in the security branch.
ADV POTGIETER
What did he do to you in that 1985 a detention.
MKOHNTO MFAZWE
He beat me with a sjambok. He then immersed my face in water. In iced water. Every time I would go there her would threaten me and he said he would immerse my face in cold water.
ADV POTGIETER
How did you feel - you were sixteen years old - you were very young during this - how did you feel during this way that you were treated during this period.
MKOHNTO MFAZWE
I was terrified. Every time they came to fetch me, I would cry.
ADV POTGIETER
During June of 1986 you were arrested at home and you were then eventually again detained - is that correct.
MKOHNTO MFAZWE
Yes sir, it is so.
ADV POTGIETER
The Constable Jack who was involved in your detention - is that correct.
MKOHNTO MFAZWE
Yes sir, it is so.
ADV POTGIETER
You were in fact held at Richmond police station during the period - this term of detention. Is that right.
MKOHNTO MFAZWE
Yes sir, it is so.
ADV POTGIETER
Can you tell us about that detention - what your experiences were.
MKOHNTO MFAZWE
On the 18th of July, police came home. I was sleeping - they opened my window. They woke me up saying they want me. They took me to the police station in Noupoort. They then said they would transfer me to Richmond. I was in solitary confinement. Every morning they would say I must take my blanket and put them in the store and then they would command me to clean my cell. They would give me a hosepipe to wash my cell. It was in the middle of June. It was freezing. My feet were swollen all the time. I would get blisters. I would get blisters.
When I went to the doctor, the doctor said my environment was very cold. The temperature was too low for me. My feet still hurt me, especially when it is cold. Every winter I have to take sick leave.
ADV POTGIETER
How long did you spend I detention. How long did you spend in detention in 1986.
MKOHNTO MFAZWE
Two months, sir. Two months in Richmond - one month in Middleburg - therefore it was three months.
ADV POTGIETER
How long did you spend in solitary confinement.
MKOHNTO MFAZWE
Seventy-five days sir.
ADV POTGIETER
And at that stage you were seventeen years old. That was just the following year after the first detention - is that correct.
MKOHNTO MFAZWE
Yes sit, I was seventeen years of age.
ADV POTGIETER
What effect did all this have on you.
MKOHNTO MFAZWE
After I got out of jail, I live in fear. I do not want to be with anyone. I did not understand at my age that I was not a criminal as I was detained - I thought a criminal. Then people would explain to me that when you are actually detained - you are not being charged of any criminal offence. I worked for the Local Authority at Noupoort.
ADV POTGIETER
Did you complete your studies.
MKOHNTO MFAZWE
I am matriculated. After that I went to University for a year. But because I was financially impaired, I had to go back to work. My health was not good either.
ADV POTGIETER
When did you spend - during which year were you at University.
MKOHNTO MFAZWE
It was in 1991. No sir sorry, 1992.
ADV POTGIETER
Do you intend to pursue those studies of yours.
MKOHNTO MFAZWE
If I would get financial aid, I would continue with my studies.
ADV POTGIETER
Are you living with your parents.
MKOHNTO MFAZWE
I have one parent - my mother.
ADV POTGIETER
[Indistinct]
MKOHNTO MFAZWE
No, I am not married.
ADV POTGIETER
No dependants.
MKOHNTO MFAZWE
No, I do not have children.
ADV POTGIETER
Is there anything else that you would like to add to your testimony.
MKOHNTO MFAZWE
No.
ADV POTGIETER
Nothing that you would like ask - to know about.
MKOHNTO MFAZWE
I finished sir.
ADV POTGIETER
Thank you Mr Mfazwe.
ADV POTGIETER
I am now going to hand to the Chairperson. Thank you very much.
MS BURTON
I am sorry about the noise that you have to compete with - it’s quite a dramatic wind outside today. You have given us a very strong picture of the way in which in those years the authority figures of the time felt that they could do anything. That the state of emergency gave them powers to detain people without trials, hold them in solitary confinement, to subject them to physical torture.
And one of the things that we hope to do towards creating the kind of society in which that can never happen again. Community organisation like NOYCO was seen as centres of resistance that must be stamped out at any cost and I think that it’s important for us to remember that in every little town, those struggles of the people in organisations like NOYCO and others that were affiliated to the UDF and to other political organisation - other view points even - were all part of the contribution that brought about eventually in this decade the first democratic elections and the new government that we have.
So what you suffered was not for nothing. It was part of the struggle to build the new society. But we also now that you paid a heavy price - that although you say that you are reasonably well now, that experience does create an emotional impact on you and you have to rebuild your lives.
We wish you well in doing that and we hope that Mr Maseti you will be able to find employment because it’s all very well to talk about the new democracy, but until that translates into development for the small country areas as well as for the cities and jobs and better futures for the people, we won’t really be very far along the road to transformation.
But we thank you for the things that you did to help towards that process and for coming today to talk to us and to tell us what it was like to be young in Noupoort in 1985 and 1986. Thank you very much.
