CASE NO: CT/01400/UPI
VICTIM: ANDERSON MPENDELO LIZO
NATURE OF VIOLENCE: SHOT BY POLICE
TESTIMONY FROM: ANDERSON MPENDELO LIZO
MR POTGIETER: Welcome, I am just going to ask you to stand so you can take the oath.
ANDERSON MPENDELO LIZO Duly sworn states
MR POTGIETER: Thank you, you may be seated. Welcome to George as well. Mr Lizo, your evidence relates to two incidents. The first one concerns an incident which happened between 1986 and 1987 where you were arrested and tortured by the police, and the second incident relates to August 1993 when you were shot. Now let's talk about the first incident in 1986/87. Would you like to tell us what happened to you in that first incident? --- Yes, it was during 1986/87 I was still at school. I was still at school, after school we played soccer against another team. It wasn't actually soccer, it was rugby we played. Three of us came to the soccer fields too early. We were waiting there for the others. We were chatting. Suddenly a vehicle drove up, it was a Landrover and inside was Red Major and his friend. The friend asked what we were waiting for and we said, no, we were going to play rugby and Red Major's friend said, when we come back and you're still there, we're going to put you in the van and Red Major said, no, put them in the van straight away, and they picked up the three of us, two Coloured people and myself. They took us to town and they took us to the bridge over the Orange River and they said we had to get out of the vehicle and they, I ask him what was happening now - and they asked who was causing all this chaos and problems in Paballelo and I said I didn't know. I didn't know anything about these matters. Why don't you ask these other people and they said, I'm not going to ask people who is of my colour, we are asking you -but the way we were treating us, but they should treat me the same way as they treat them. Then Red Major said we had to undress. The bridge has a high rail and Red Major said if you speak the truth you needn't jump and we said, what had we done and he said, don't talk rubbish, and then they pushed us over the edge into the river. We had to swim across the river and as soon as we got back they came to that side, took us, brought us back to the bridge and pushed us over again, and then they asked again who was causing problems in Paballelo and I said I didn't know, then he pushed us over the bridge again. That went on for a whole hour, and he said I must open my mouth, and he asked me, I must open my mouth and he said do you like your teeth, and he said keep open your mouth, just open your lips and I, while my mouth was open, he hit me with the butt of the revolver, but three teeth were broken. I was the only one who was treated so badly that day. Then he lit a cigarette and he tipped the ashes on my teeth. As soon as the cigarette was dead he lit it again and he stubbed it out on my teeth. He took us back to the abattoir. There I ran away but I did not go straight home. I went to some family in Brown Street. The man was deceased but the woman was still alive and I told them that the police had assaulted me but there was no time for him to go down to the police station because he was a guard at the municipality and he put some ointment on my wounds because my father was not there and they were both at work. I did not tell anybody at home what had happened to me. At school the doctors came who looked at our teeth and gave us injections and they extracted two of my teeth. At a later stage they extracted the third tooth. So I could go back to school in a normal way.
First, before you get to the second incident, I would like to ask you a few questions. There was no case made after this assault? --- No, no I did not know that you could make a case against the police because I was still a young person.
The person whom you told what had happened. --- He was a guard at the municipality and he was, wore a khaki uniform with a short pants and long stockings. He is deceased but his wife is still living.
So he just help you and he rubbed some Deep Heat into your wounds but he never made a case with the police. How old were you at that stage in 1986? How old are you now? --- I was 15 years old. I'm 25 years old now.
So you were about 14/15 years old and you said that you didn't do anything, you were just waiting there to play soccer and they just picked you up and took you to the river and harassed you. You were the only one who were assaulted. The other two were just pushed over the bridge. --- I was the only one who had been assaulted.
And he asked you, who were responsible for the problems in Paballelo. --- I did not know at all.
This Red Major, is he still in the police service in Upington? --- This Red Major is not a policeman anymore. He is now, lives now in Kimberley. He is now a reverend in Kimberley.
Thank you. Is it a white person? --- Yes it is a white person. I don't know to which church he belongs but he is a reverend at the moment.
And you say you lost three teeth during that incident. Is it high from the bridge into the river? --- Yes! It's very high.
Sixty to seventy-five feet high and you were only 14/15 years old. How did you feel when you were standing on that rails and pushed you down into the river? --- I mean they do that until there are no tears in your eyes. There are also stones in the river which hurt you. If you fall on those it could hurt you terribly but fortunately that did not happen to us. It was about 40 metres from the side that they pushed us over.
During what time of the day was that? --- The school closed at quarter past one, it was about half past two that afternoon. It was in the broad daylight that they did these things to you.
Then there is the second incident about the shooting in 1993. --- In 1992 - I think that was the right date that it was after the assassination of Chris Hani, we were involved in a project to clean the people's yards and throw this rubbish in the roads. This was a project to give work to people. So we removed all the rubbish and old cars and all the rubbish we removed from the people's yards and threw that in the road. I live in Bonisa Street, when we came from the main road into Tenth Street, on our way we joined the group and coming down Kings Road, at the first 4-way stop we split into two groups. One went down Brand Street and the other one down Kings Road. As soon as we came to Katshane Street we were standing there singing, waiting for the other group. We were waiting for the other group coming from Brand Street and we then joined into one group and walked further along the road. While the one group was coming to join us, we were near Katshane Street on the corner, there was a man called Tsepo, a reservist. He had a Magnum revolver, a 9mm Parabelum. The Magnum was his own and the Parabelum belonged to the police. As we were standing there he was sitting kneeling on his knees and he was aiming at the group standing at the corner of Kings and Katshane Road and he was aiming at us and he shot me in my leg, in my thigh. As I was running, his two sons Lester and Thabo, they were driving, they were sitting on the boot of their white Chevrolet and they also start shooting into the crowd of people. I ran about ten metres and I fell. They continued to shoot and I got up and I ran again and I struggled to get to the corner and I went into a house. Those people ran away and left me behind in the house. I was sitting there and when the people gathered there, I could see through the window. Jannie Nkonsu called me from outside and I said, no my friend I had been shot, I wasn't coming out. They put me on a, they took me away now and took me to another one, it was right opposite the square. This house was right opposite the square. When we arrived there they bought Eno's and everything that could help and they wanted to put that on my leg and I said, no it was no rubber bullet it was a real bullet, and they said they were carrying me to show me to this man to show him that he had shot me and they asked, they, he told us that if you wanted me to shoot again, you better leave immediately. They were standing behind me with my back to him and I said please take me away, take me away. They took me away and my father brought a bakkie from our home and he took me to the hospital. Another man by the name of Elvis came there and he said, no he would take me to hospital and they took me to the hospital. It was about 12 o'clock when I arrived at hospital. Until, it was only 7 o'clock that morning when Doctor Eksteen came there and he operated on my leg, that was past 1 the morning. What happened then, as the day progressed, four policemen Njaka, Pona, Tangaas and another one, that was a Coloured policeman, I've forgotten his name. They came to me, he was sitting on the bed next to me and Pona and Njaka were standing by the window and the one policeman was standing at the door and the one sitting next to me said, I have given them a command to tie you to the bed and I said, rubbish you are not going to handcuff me to the bed, and he said I have received a command to tie you to the bed, to handcuff you to the bed, and he said I have to do it, and I said no I am not going to allow that. He took my hand and I showed him can I run away, can a person run away when his leg looks like this and he said I can understand you cannot run away when your leg looks like this but they gave me the command to do this and he called, nurse, nurse, nurse and I said nurse this man was going to tie me to the bed. Please ask my father to come and solve this problem. They phoned my father and Peetie Williams and other people accompanied my father to the hospital, they spoke to the police and the police spoke on the telephone and the captain said no, it was in order, you could go away. So everything was calm. I stayed in hospital for about three to four weeks and then they said this ward now is full. You have to go to the white ward because it is empty there, because there you have to stay according to your medical assistance. They took me to the white ward and they gave me a bed there. I got onto the bed and they put the crutches and a wheelchair next to my bed. Later on, another nurse came there when they changed shifts and she asked what had happened to these people and she asked what is wrong with you and I said no, I had been shot and she opened the blanket and said where had you been shot and I said in Paballelo, and she said oh are you from the ANC and she said no, we don't want ANC's here and she took me out on the bed, she pulled me out of the ward. I took my crutches on the bed and she took me back to where I have just come from and left me in the passage. Then I took my crutches and went back to the white ward, got onto my wheelchair and came back to where my bed was and I told this nurse they have chased me away from the white ward, and we tried to establish where there was a ward where there was a place for my bed and they took me there. When they discharged me, two policemen came there and they said meneer Lizo you had been discharged, we have to take you home. I said no I am not going with you, I am going to phone my father and they said it is not necessary to phone your father, you have to go with us. We will take you home. And I said no, I am not going with you, my father is coming to fetch me. But the one became very angry but eventually I said if you hurt me you will suffer, I am not going with you. Later on another man who came to visit me arrived there and they, he took me home. Xhiso arrived there, he phoned Bernadt attorneys from Cape Town, ANC attorneys, they phoned, tried to contact attorneys. He phoned from my house trying to contact all these people. Bernadt Vukic and Potash did not take the necessary steps to follow up my case. Now afterwards everything was fine till up to date, till this present time.
This second time, during this shooting incidence, was there ever a case opened? Did they ask any remuneration or did they put in a claim? --- I gave them the necessary, these lawyers the necessary documents and they saw that there was a case number and they said he will try to find the docket. If there is a case number there should be a docket because I do not know anything about a case.
Have you heard anything about these Bernadt Vukic and Potash lawyers, have you received any money afterwards? How is your leg nowadays, is your leg still sore? --- Yes when it is cold, it is very sore.
Does it still give you problems when it is cold? --- Yes and when I walk on my leg it also hurts but I have to use it all the time.
You are 25 years of age, are you working at the moment? Do you work for your parents? Do you support them? --- [No answer]
Are there any questions from my colleagues? I just want to repeat that our investigating unit have tried to establish what has happened to this shooting incident, what happened to you in 1992. They have the case number but they told us the same story I have mentioned before namely that the records, the police records have been destroyed but like I have said previously, we will continue our investigations. Thank you very much Mr Lizo. It seems to me you have had many unpleasant experiences. When you were still very young you had very negative experiences and above all, it was with the police who were supposed to be protecting you, and the police were more causing a threat to you than protecting you. But we will further investigate the matter and we will keep in contact with you. Thank you very much.
