Special Report Transcript Episode 4, Section 2, Time 04:49

On Friday we met with Robert McBride in the gardens of the Union Buildings where he now works. // This particular operation cannot be seen in isolation to what the state was doing. It was after a period of a number of cross-border raids in which men, women and children, mostly not even members of the ANC, mostly non-combatants of those who were ANC members, were killed. It was after the Kabwe conference in which the ANC decided to step up its military activity. It was in the time when the ANC decided they would not show as much restraint as they did in the past in going after enemy personal. It was a time when the word for example of ‘caught in crossfire,’ the phrase came about. It was a time when there was a state of emergency, where we had a fascist system in the country, detention without trial, where there was no democracy, when apartheid was regarded as a crime against humanity. It was a time when we youth activists had become radicalised, we had been in and out of detention, assaulted by police, harassed. It’s a time when we were very susceptible to carrying out such operations because of the heat and indeed the hatred in the country. // But still it wasn’t your decision, the target wasn’t your decision, the method of attack wasn’t your decision. Did you get orders from MK high command? // Yes, I received orders. I was part of the branch of the MK that was called special operations. The material for the bomb blast was provided to me by the ANC, its material that’s only been used in car bomb blasts. So, clearly the instructions came from within the ANC. // Even as far as specifically the target? // Specifically the target also. Subsequently I’ve learnt that there’s a possibility that they might have been false information given by [inaudible] provocateur in regards to the intelligence. Now, until I had heard that, I believed it was the right target. // Why not come from Natal command not too far away? // Natal command was inaccessible with a car bomb and I was given specific instructions and I was given material for a car bomb. I wasn’t given other material, for example [motors] which could have been lobbed from the beach or something into Natal command. The information given was that Natal command off-duty personal go to this particular areas and also people from the C R Swarts police barracks. // In this time of truth and reconciliation, isn’t it time that you named your commanders who gave you this order. Why should you take all the flack? // Well, I’ve taken all the flack already. I haven’t mentioned anybody’s name either during interrogation or during my trial or in subsequent interviews. If it’s about reconciliation I don’t want anyone to go through what I went through, even if they were my commanders and I will never mention the names of the people who gave me the orders. // Do you expect them to volunteer their names? Come forward and say we gave Robert McBride that order? // I think it is going to be very difficult for people to specifically say they gave that order, mainly because they’ve seen what I’ve gone through, even after expressing remorse and contrition I’m still an unforgiven person. And I don’t think they would come out specifically and say who did what; I would expect it would be a general statement of support. // Well, you just said that you’re not a forgiven person, why not look the viewers of this programme in the eye and tell them once and for all and hopefully for the last time, what were your emotions and what are your emotions about it now? // Well, prior to the operation, one must be honest and say your were angry, that you were not an iceberg, you were part of an organised struggle, to a certain extend you were radicalised, you wanted to carry out the orders of your organisation, because you believed in the policies and I still do believe in those policies of democracy which we finally achieved. But immediately after the operation when we heard of the enormity of the pain and suffering we had caused, it’s at that moment that I regretted having carried out the operation. Because, in the heat of the moment when you are trained to do a specific job, you are trained to carry out your operation as successfully as possible, you don’t always consider the ramifications and the implications of the operation. Especially in terms of human life. It was quite shocking to us that we’d actually been responsible for such pain and suffering. And from that moment, the morning after, I regretted it and I still regret that I had caused pain and suffering to fellow human beings, fellow South Africans. // I have to live with this on my conscience for the rest of my life and I’ll have to deal with whatever emerges because of this. So, I don’t unrealistically hope it will go away, it won’t go away; it will stay with me forever. And, I’m prepared to face that, I’ve been through many trials and tribulations in my time and I know I must be responsible for that which I have done .

Notes: Interview with Robert McBride at the Union Buildings