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Special Report
Transcripts for Section 2 of Episode 77

TimeSummary
02:51The drama that led to the death of Stompie Seipei started in late 1988 with the accusation that Methodist minister Paul Verryn was sexually abusing four young people who were running from the police. Katiza Cebekhulu said Madikizela-Mandela told him to claim that Verryn had raped him.Full Transcript and References
03:10You have seen that Katiza was sent by Mrs. Mandela to mess up with all our lives, including my daughter, who was underage and went to prison for her. That was all fabricated by Mrs. Mandela … sent Katiza, you have seen that. Mrs. Mandela is the one who caused the death of Stompie Seipei and the assault of others. Full Transcript and References
03:40Mrs. Mandela said I should take the minibus and go fetch those boys from the Methodist centre and I went to Winnie to find out if she had really said that. And I took the bus, after she said yes, with the other comrades. Full Transcript and References
04:00But the youngsters quickly admitted that the whole sexual allegation was false. // Was there any truth in those allegations at all? // No. Even if he’s here I’m sorry, he didn’t rape me.Full Transcript and References
04:20They then asked me why are you sleeping with a white Reverend? I then asked him, how do you mean, can you please elaborate your question? How it comes for you to allow you to have sex with a Reverend, a white Reverend? I said no, it didn’t happen to me. I know nothing about that. Full Transcript
04:47Did you every sexually molest any of those people? // No. // Did you ever engage in any sexual activity with those people? // No. // Did you ever make sexual advances to them? // No.Full Transcript
04:49Under cross examination Madikizela-Mandela denied she had ever accused Verryn of sexually molesting the boys, yet she clearly charged Verryn with sodomising the youngsters in an American TV documentary long after they had stated clearly that the allegations were false.Full Transcript
05:17I did not make those accusations against a Paul Verryn. I did not know. I did not know Reverend Paul Verryn. I was merely giving an explanation from evidence given to me by Falati. // Mrs. Madikizela-Mandela, that NBC documentary that I saw two weeks ago is still in existence and if necessary … the content of the documentary is before this Commission. Madam you say in the documentary ‘Paul Verryn has a very, very serious psychological problem. I do not understand why a man of his calibre and a Christian would continue sodomising black children.’ Was the only source of you information that which had been given to you by Katiza Cebekhulu? // Yes.Full Transcript and References
06:20At the Mandela household the four were viciously assaulted. // Well firstly it was Winnie who first started beating us with a fist. She was the one who started the beating and the group joined beating us.Full Transcript
06:36The first person who started assaulting was Winnie Mandela and assaulting Stompie Seipei. Her, and the others followed as well, assaulting the rest. They would lift them and throw them right in the air and they called that system a jet something and they would let go of them in the air and they will come drop down on the floor.Full Transcript and References
06:58Is it correct that the people that beat Stompie were Mrs. Mandela, Katiza, Slash and yourself? // Yes, but there are others. Everybody who was there participated as well as the other members of the Mandela United Football Club.Full Transcript and References
07:25We now know that the young men were assaulted by Richardson and the others. Did you witness any of this? // No I didn’t. // Did you see any injuries on the young men? // No I didn’t.Full Transcript and References
07:44I found him in a deformed state; his face was as round as a football and I tried to help him drink some coffee and feed him bread as he was not in a position to help himself and I felt pity for the boy.Full Transcript
08:12Katiza Cebekhulu says he saw Madikizela-Mandela stab Stompie with a shiny object one night but Jerry Richardson had a different version. He said Mommy had ordered him to get rid of Stompie. // I did the same with him. I slaughtered him. I slaughtered him like a goat. // And how did you do that? // We made him lie on his back and I put garden shears through his neck and the garden shears penetrated to the back of his neck and I made some cutting motion. Slash also had his own pair of garden shears and he cut Stompie’s neck. He really wanted to make sure that we cut his throat.Full Transcript
09:16The Truth Commissioners clearly had problems accepting Madikizela-Mandela’s statement that she had no knowledge of any of this. // Stompie has become almost a symbol in South Africa. Richardson says and many of them concur that he was beaten far more viciously than anyone else and the allegation was that it was because he was thought to be an informer and we all know now that he died a very cruel death and you yourself have acknowledged your own sorrow about that. Again, how is it possible for this youngster to be so badly assaulted and then finally killed within your own property and then taken from your property, according to Richardson, and killed without you knowing it? // Well I have stated here sir that I did not believe that Stompie was an informer in the first place. And I do not believe that was the reason Richardson killed that boy. // The death of Stompie. We have two versions and I want to tell you now that my impressions, which are prima facie impressions, are that when ...moreFull Transcript
13:56Lolo Sono was the next victim. His father says the last time he saw his son alive was in a kombi with Madikizela-Mandela. He was badly beaten up. // I pleaded with her until she said to me I’m taking this dog away. The movement will see what to do. That was the last time I saw my son Lolo in the company of Mrs. Mandela and some young men that were not known to me.Full Transcript and References
14:25My last conduct with Lolo was when I dropped him in the vicinity of Jerry Richardson’s house. // But he said under oath that the version given by Mr. Michael Siyakamela, who was allegedly the driver of the vehicle that brought Lolo Sono to his father’s house on the 13th of November according to Mrs. Sono … and Mr. Dempsey advised us and Mr. Hessinger advised us that Mr. Michael Siyakamela‘s version fits in with Mr. Nicodemus Sono’s version. Furthermore, we have notes from the AG, Mr. Van Vuuren, notes which we have given to Mr. …. , taken in 1991, which also corroborate this fact, taken from Mr. Michael Siyakamela. We have given evidence in this hearing; we’ve put Mr. Pigou and a journalist, Mr. Schillinger on the witness stand where he repeated a version to them which corroborated Mr. Nicodemus Sono’s version. We have explained to you why we haven’t got hold of Mr. Siyakamela. We are still trying but we haven’t been successful thus far. In view of this further ...moreFull Transcript
17:08Katiza Cebekhulu however says he was there that night when Nicodemus Sono pleaded for his son’s life. // Even you do not believe in the lunatic statements that have been made by Cebekhulu. I really hope so. Full Transcript
17:26Jerry Richardson then described Sono’s last moments. // And at the time Guybon was busy killing the other one. // How did he kill them? // He was killing him, slaughtering him like a goat. // And what did you do next? // As soon as they finished slaughtering him, we got into the car; we went back to Mrs. Mandela’s place to give her a report back.Full Transcript
18:06A number of other murders in the tax were blamed on the Mandela United Football Club. Sibuniso, son of Nomsa Tshabalala, disappeared around the same time as Lolo Sono. Jerry Richardson says he took part in Sibuniso’s murder which was ordered by Madikizela-Mandela.Full Transcript
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