| Time | Summary | |
| 01:16 | On the 11 of September this year President Nelson Mandela unveiled a statue in East London of Black Consciousness leader Steve Biko. Biko died 20 years before, while being held in detention in Port Elizabeth. Four of the policemen implicated in Biko’s murder have applied for amnesty for the killing. They are Harold Snyman, Gideon Niewoudt, Daantjie Siebert, Johan Beneke and Rubin Marx. Snyman testified before the Amnesty Committee in September. | Full Transcript and References |
| 01:45 | Mr Biko was on the one end and in the process of the shuffle he fell and the others fell on top of him. He was then pushed towards the wall. // You were referring to the wall and where the people fell, could you explain from there onwards what occurred? // An effort was then made to shackle Mr Biko again. He was lying with his head partly against the wall and at that time it appeared as if he was completely confused. I would almost explain it like someone who had been knocked out in a boxing match. You could see that he was dazed. | Full Transcript |
| 02:39 | This week the Amnesty Committee came back to Port Elizabeth to hear the rest of the applications. Proceedings started with the by now familiar stalling tactics from applicant Gideon Niewoudt. Niewoudt was recently denied amnesty for the assault on Mkhuseli Jack. He asked that his application for the Biko assault be heard by another Committee. | Full Transcript |
| 03:00 | In the interest of overall justice we have come to the conclusion that Mr Niewoudt’s application should be separated from the application of his other colleagues and that it should be considered by a panel constituted differently from the present panel. | Full Transcript |
| 03:24 | Daantjie Siebert was Biko’s chief interrogator. On September 6 1977, the scuffle that ended in a fatal blow to Biko’s head started when Siebert ordered Biko not to sit down whilst being questioned. Biko defied him and a fight ensued. | Full Transcript |
| 03:42 | Mr Siebert, did you assault Mr Biko? // No I did not. // Did you cause his death? // His death was caused by the incident which took place. // I asked you a simple question, did you cause his death? // I would not be able to say if I was responsible, there were a few of us present there. | Full Transcript |
| 04:20 | Johannes Beneke was not part of the interrogation team. He claimed that he intervened only when he heard shouts from the next room. // I heard loud talking in this back office and I went closer and in the door, which gave access to this office – while I stood there, I stopped there – I noticed at some point that Mr Biko threw a chair forwards and that he tried to throw a punch at Siebert. // Continue. // I moved forwards very quickly and I grabbed Mr Biko’s right arm with which he was performing this swinging motion or movement and I bumped him on the shoulder with my shoulder. // Why did you do that? // I wanted to prevent him assaulting Capt Siebert or attacking him. // In what condition was Mr Biko immediately after the skirmish? // He seemed dazed. // And what was your condition after the skirmish? // I’d hurt my elbow and my clothes were torn at this stage. // What clothes were you wearing? // I was wearing a safari suit. | Full Transcript |
| 06:27 | You did nothing unlawful. You helped colleagues whom you had a duty to assist and you assisted them. // That is correct. // Therefore you did no wrong. // That is correct. // Then why on earth did you apply for amnesty for an assault which you did not commit? // As I’ve already said I used violence by shoulder butting him and if a court has to decide on those facts and decides that it is unlawful, it’s for that reason that I’ve asked for amnesty. | Full Transcript |
| 07:12 | The one man who seemed prepared to go further than denials was Rubin Marx. Marx is an old style policeman who was also part of the interrogation team. // The deceased Mr Biko did not like being told to get up when Siebert told him he must get up when he speak to me in my office. I thought that I was simply superfluous there, there was nothing that I could do, that I would leave and go do some research and that when my turn came that I could confront the man with something constructive. I wouldn’t’ ask him things I didn’t know about. So, I went to fetch Mr Biko’s file. When I came back I heard Siebert speaking very loudly and I heard a scuffle and a noise in the office. I opened the door and I saw a scuffle going on. Well, my duty as a fellow policeman – Beneke was on the one side and Siebert was on the other – and I grabbed hold of Biko around his body, around his waist, and there was a scuffle and we were against the bars and the whole lot of us collapsed. And he was ...more | Full Transcript |
| 08:56 | If you feel that you’ve done nothing wrong is it really necessary for you to apply for amnesty? // Frankly, it’s not necessary. The only thing is I did it because I was involved in that little struggle. // Whose idea was it that you should apply for amnesty Mr Marx? // Niewoudt. | Full Transcript |
| 09:23 | Steve Biko’s comrade in the Black Consciousness Movement, Peter Jones, recalled the serenity of his friend and denied that Biko would have started a fight. // If I should describe Steve Biko in a word I would describe him as calm, as mature and as a leader, an outstanding visionary who always were cooperative unless treated in an uncivil and disrespectful or violent way. | Full Transcript |
| 09:57 | We oppose the applications of all the applicants for amnesty Mr Chairman and members of the Committee. And want to say at the outset that we do so primarily because we consider their applications an attempt to clear their names with a self defence story in order that the record should be expunged, that they are in fact responsible for the death of Mr. Biko. | Full Transcript |
| 10:44 | Steve Biko’s wife and son were also present in Port Elizabeth this week, hoping to hear the truth at last. // There’s a sense in which you yearn to piece together as perfect a picture about your father as possible and I suppose somewhere in that picture is this piecing together the events leading to his death. So to me it’s very important. When I sit there I take notes in the inquest and from what I’ve been hearing now I’ve three directions. I can’t even develop a watertight theory about his death because of the disappointing evidence that we’ve been hearing so far. And it goes something like this. They go into the room, they will remember many things outside out of the room, they will remember many things that are very immaterial and when it comes to the real issues, how he sustained his death, they become very general. | Full Transcript |
| 11:49 | I am a bit disappointed really, because when we came to these hearings I was hoping that the stories that they are going to tell will be different from what they told us at the inquest, but it looks like they’re still dodging some questions and not being able to tell the full story. // People must begin to see change, to move towards reconciliation otherwise you have a kind of talk that is something like this. In the office, yes we’re a rainbow nation and in the taverns and in the pubs it’s something like staff, black people staff white people. And I’m not sure if that is reconciliation. At a personal level, if there were gestures to respond to then perhaps we could work towards reconciliation. // I’m just seeing a group of very dangerous people who didn’t take care of Steve. I think they were just inhuman, they were just not dealing with a human being when they were dealing with Steve. | Full Transcript |
