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Transcripts for Section 5 of Episode 86
|46:03||The amnesty hearings of the two right wingers who killed Communist Party leader Chris Hani ended this week. If the Committee believes that Clive Derby-Lewis and Janusz Walus did have a political motive, acted on behalf of or on the orders of a legitimate political party, made a full disclosure of all the facts in this case and that the murder was in proportion to the political aims they will have to grant the two men amnesty. Some men who are alleged to have perpetrated human rights violations in the past did not ask for amnesty. Many of them will now face criminal prosecution, like Ferdi Barnard, convicted murderer, former policemen and former member of the army’s civil cooperation bureau. Barnard is appearing before the Pretoria High Court, among other things on charges of killing activist David Webster. His former girlfriends and wife have been spilling the beans about him and now some of his former comrades are also beginning to speak out. Inevitably, region 6 of the CCB came up ...more||Full Transcript and References|
|47:16||Three good friends get together once or twice a year to talk about the old times. They go way back these guys. They were once cops together at Brixton Murder and Robbery. About 10 years ago all 3 suddenly quit the force for a new career on the other side of the law. Between them they have been implicated in murdering or trying to murder at least 6 people including Anton Lubowski and David Webster who both died and Dullah Omar who survived plans to shoot and poison him. Staal Burger, Callas Botha and Slang van Zyl worked for the SADF Civil Cooperation Bureau in the late eighties and formed the core of the CCB’s Region 6, South Africa. They used to go everywhere together. In 1990 they all went to the Harms Commission and lied in concert. Two years later they got together to lie to the Webster inquest. They have all approached the TRC for amnesty with a similar, particularly brief and relatively inoffensive list of what they like to refer to as ‘projects.’ They don’t mention ...more||Full Transcript|
|49:46||I’d not heard of Webster before he died. Out of respect for confidentiality we didn’t ask each other about particular projects.||Full Transcript|
|49:54||He told the court about the aims of the CCB, echoing Magnus Malan’s TRC submission.||Full Transcript|
|49:59||The role envisaged for CCB was the infiltration and penetration of the enemy, the gathering of information and the disruption of the enemy.||Full Transcript|
|50:08||Although Van Zyl was more forthright, disruption obviously included assassination and his first task when he took up his post in Cape Town in 1989 was to hire people with special skills.||Full Transcript|
|50:19||The sort of people I looked for were those who could amongst other things could act as assassins who could murder. I recruited two people for that purpose; you can’t find a sniper or a assassin behind every bush you know.||Full Transcript|
|50:30||Van Zyl’s gangsters were supposed to murder Justice Minister Dullah Omar, then an activist lawyer outside his house in Athlone. The job proved too much for the combined efforts of two gangsters, Van Zyl and Ferdi Barnard and they gave up. This week Van Zyl agreed with prosecutor Anton Ackermann’s observation that South Africa was fortunate the CCB was so bad at its job. And then he walked back to his new respectable life. Another of the three friends’ names litters the Ferdi Barnard charge sheet. Callas Botha, the CCB’s man in the Transvaal is named in the Webster murder charge, the Dullah Omar attempted murder, the attempted murder of a young activist, burning the car of another and blowing up a policeman’s car in the hope that APLA would be blamed for it. But Callas Botha has not been called to testify, nor has he been arrested. This week, after vetting our questions and checking with his lawyer he gave his theory about why he is still a free man.||Full Transcript|
|51:26||Your name is all over the Ferdi Barnard charge sheet, why didn’t you come forward to clear your name? // To be quite honest, I’ve noted all the allegations. I have approached the TRC with regards to an application, with regards to certain activities which took place within the CCB boundaries so to speak and apart from that I don’t think it would be fair to ask me to comment on any statement being made in the media at this moment in time. // Not so much in the media, it’s just very puzzling that the name he has encompassed, that as far as we can tell no one has come forward to ask you to testify, to arrest you, it must be puzzling you. // It is actually and it is to a certain extent affecting my personal life as well apart from my business as such. But most probably if I could say in all honesty I think most probably they believe in my innocence as well, because at this moment in time there’s absolutely nothing that I feel ashamed of in terms of media allegations and ...more||Full Transcript|
|53:04||The murder of Dr David Webster in May 1989 does not form part of Callas Botha’s TRC application, although witness after witness has told the Pretoria High Court that Barnard always maintained Botha drove the car for the drive-by shooting. The only car Callas Botha would be questioned on this week was the BMW stretch limousine he now drives and the vanity plates he has had fitted.||Full Transcript|
|53:28||Most probably first impression is not that good, but in all honesty if I can explain to you, 750 obviously for the motorcar and CCB being Carl Casteling Botha, which is my Christian name. // You don’t think this might be a bit offensive in the new South Africa? // Mam that wasn’t my intention, but in all honesty as I said during our earlier interview, if it does offend people at all I would be more than willing to change it at any stage. As I say it was just something that as many other people do, it’s just unfortunately it’s the CCB now or it relates to the CCB, but if it does offend people I’m more than willing to change it at any stage. ||Full Transcript|
|54:11||Callas Botha owns a successful insurance brokerage in Roodepoort. Staal Burger is a sugar farmer. Slang van Zyl has turned his CCB cover as a private eye into his own lucrative business. And the three old friends got together again a few weeks ago, just before Slang van Zyl appeared at the Barnard trial, just to talk about the ‘old days.’ ||Full Transcript||