CHAIRPERSON: Before I hand over to my colleague Piet Meiring, who is going to lead the discussions and the questions I would like Mr Phele to stand up and repeat the oath.
MS SEROKE: I see that there is a woman accompanying you, can you introduce her to us please?
MR PHELE: This is my daughter.
MS SEROKE: We welcome your daughter.
DR RANDERA: Thank you. Professor Meiring will you please take over.
PROF MEIRING: Mr Phele may I again say to you welcome and thank you for being with us and to tell the story of your son. Just before I give you the opportunity just to clear up something, is your son named Frans Molefe Phele, is Molefe the middle name?
MR PHELE: Yes Molefe is another name.
PROF MEIRING: Thank you so much. Please tell us the story of your son.
MR PHELE: Molefe was schooling at Matebotsebo High School in 1990. He was doing standard 8. He went to Tanzania in the middle of 1990. He came back to South Africa in 1991. he belonged to the Pan Africanist Congress. When he came back in 1991 it was in the middle of the year and I took him back to school in 1992 to go and repeat the standard 8 so that he can complete it.
On the 15th of May in 1992, it was about 9 o'clock in the evening he was together with his friends at a filling station, Trek filling station in Masheshwe Street. A car approached, it was a white City Golf. They were still together with his friends, and the car drove and it shot at them and they took different directions. Each one was taking his direction, and he went to the Trek filling station to hide himself.
One of the people in the car saw him as he was hiding and he went to take him out. And he said to him get out of here. They were three in number. They were the police. They assaulted him. And they took him to Houtkop police station after assaulting him. It was on a Friday.
On Saturday I went to Houtkop to ask him why had he been arrested. He was badly injured. His face was swollen. They said they don't know why they arrested him. I bailed him on Monday, I had to pay R300,00 bail. He was going to school, on the other side going to the court case, and every time it would be postponed. Three times the case was postponed. On the 22nd it was the fourth time, it was in the same year in 1992, in the month of October the case was conducted. He came back home.
The next day at one o'clock in the night a Hippo stopped outside. Many police were inside the Hippo. They got out and they surrounded my house. I was peeping through the window. Some of them lied on the grass and they pointed their long guns at my house. Some of them knocked at the door, I opened the door because I had already seen them. Two of the policemen got into my house and I asked them what do you want, and they said they wanted Frans. They said is he staying here? I said yes. They said who are you? I
said I am his father. Why do you want him? Where do you take him to? They said to me he did not appear before the court on the 22nd and a warrant of arrest has been issued. We have to come and pick him up. I said to them you are lying. I was with him in court, the 22nd that you are referring to I was personally at the court and he will be appearing again in court in January. The magistrate said he should come and complete his examinations and he must come back in January. They didn't take me into consideration at all. They said man, we are here to pick him up. I woke him up. I said Frans tell them, they might understand you. He came to them. He explained to them what I had told them before. He said on the 22nd I was at the court and I have to appear before the court of law again on the 25th of January. I am not going anywhere with you. They forcefully took him. I tried to stop them but they couldn't listen to me.
I said to them produce the warrant of arrest so that I can see. They refused. They said what do you know of a warrant of arrest. I said to them you cannot come here and pick a person to arrest him without a warrant of arrest. You have to produce the warrant of arrest first before you could arrest the person. They forcibly took him. It was one o'clock in the night.
At about 3:30 I prepared myself to go to work. The Hippo stopped again. It was now the next street to mine. It was in the tarred road. A few minutes I saw him coming in. I asked him what have they done to him. He said they kept me in the charge office. They were pointing at me saying this is the one, this is the dog. I said there must be something wrong here. I called Mr Mavundla because he
was handling the case. I told him that the police are busy hunting my son. He said I should just leave them, he will see to the matter.
In December, on the 31st, midnight, he was still in the yard. They were busy lighting the crickets together with his siblings, the hi-fi speaker was outside, they were listening to music. I was in bed because I wasn't feeling very well. They were together with their mother outside. At 12:30 I called their mother to tell them to come into the house to sleep because I don't trust anything at night outside. He was among the other kids and they all came into the house. When I asked his mother whether they were all inside she asked his sister where is Molefe, and the little sister said Molefe has gone to Zone 13 because he's going to give my brother's child a R20,00 note because he was working on weekends. But then I was told that he would be back within a few minutes. And I asked my wife how could you give the permission to the child to leave. She said to me no I didn't give him the permission to leave.
At about 12:45 the child came in, his friend telling us that Molefe had been shot at the passage. I had to wake up in those conditions to go and get him where he was lying. When I enquired from his friend what had happened they said they saw this car coming, this white car drove past but they couldn't realise who the occupants were. These two friends were standing in the passage, he was not there at that moment, but when he came back from Zone 13 he said to them guys I am going to a picnic this morning and I have to go and sleep. And they said to him there's a car driving around here. At the time they were telling me the car approached from the other side and it stopped right at the
passage. There were three now in number and they started shooting and he was the one who was shot.
I took him to the hospital. He was not dead at the time. We arrived at the hospital at about 2 o'clock. I left him there, he was admitted. He couldn't say a word. They shot him at the left buttock. At about 8 o'clock the next morning I went to the charge office to report the matter. The police said to me I should bring the two people with whom he was, the people who witnessed the whole incident because I do not know anything. I went back home to get his friends Tabo and Mdala were their names. I wanted them to go and tell the police what they saw with their eyes. Their statements were taken.
While we were busy writing the same car stopped outside and one of them said to me, there's the car stopping outside. I looked at the car and I saw the registration number. It was a white City Golf with the registration PHV 175 T. When the police got out of this car I took a good look at them, and I didn't say anything.
At about 3 o'clock I sent my daughter to have a look at her brother. At about 3:45 she came back and she said we were wanted at the hospital. We were told that he had passed away. Together with his mother we left. Now in the ward where he was admitted there was an office. We were then taken to the office and we were told that your son has passed away. He passed away at 10 o'clock in the morning.
This case went to the court of law but it was postponed on several occasions. On the 15th of October there was an inquest. It was in 1993. The case was started until in 1994 on the 27th of July where the magistrate told us that those people were guilty but he will never charge them.
They will be charged by the Supreme Court. Until now the case is still on. I don't know the outcomes of the case.
Those policemen are still in the police services. It's Constable Mohapi and Constable Nzo and Constable Gabayi. I will stop there.
PROF MEIRING: Mr Phele thank you so much for telling the story. I can just imagine how painful it must be for you today after two years, after how many years, after four years to re-tell the story. I don't want to prolong your difficulty but may I ask a number of questions just to clarify issues. You said that your son Frans Molefe he went into exile in 1990, was that to be trained? Was he trained as an Apla cadre?
MR PHELE: I don't know as to whether was he a soldier, a trained soldier or not. I only knew him as a very active member of the PAC.
PROF MEIRING: I am asking that because I want to know why the police were after him, did they see him as an activist or a dangerous man who was trained?
MR PHELE: I don't know because he was schooling. I don't know what kind of person he was as they looked at him because at the time when they arrested him they didn't tell us any reason. That was the first time. We were not told of any reasons of his arrest.
PROF MEIRING: Did your son tell you about what happened to him in Tanzania, about the training he had or didn't he tell much about that?
MR PHELE: He never said anything. He didn't tell me as to what kind of training did he get. He said he was in school in Tanzania that's all he told me.
PROF MEIRING: If I continue the story you told that the
first time when he was arrested at the Trek garage he was taken to the Houtkop police station and then he was tortured, you said that his face was badly injured, can you tell us a little bit more about the torture and why he was tortured. Did they want to get information from him? Why was the torture?
MR PHELE: When I asked him he said they started assaulting him, telling him he was a leader of the PAC and he refused and they said to him he must tell them the truth. That is the reason why they assaulted him. They wanted to know his position within the PAC. They kicked him. They used their butts to hit him on the face and on the back.
PROF MEIRING: Another thing that struck me as something I want to ask about is when he was shot on that New Year's Eve day, the 31st of December of 1992, you said that he was shot in the buttock and did you think that he was very badly injured, did you expect that he would die from a shot in the buttock the next morning?
MR PHELE: Not at all. We never thought that he would die of that injury because it was a very small wound. And according to the post mortem report they said they got two bullets in his body and I was surprised because he only had one wound on the left buttock. That's what surprised me a lot.
PROF MEIRING: It surprises me too. At the inquest did they talk about that? Did they give more information about the second shot?
MR PHELE: No they never gave me any explanation Sir.
PROF MEIRING: You told about the two sons of Mr Modidi, you gave the names as Tabo and Ndladla, is that right, are those the sons?
MR PHELE: These are the two boys with whom he was at the passage at the time he was shot.
PROF MEIRING: But are they the children of Mr Modidi?
MR PHELE: No I never said anything about Modidi. Mdala's surname is Mofokeng. Tabo belongs to the other father and Mdala to the other family. I can't remember Mdala's surname.
PROF MEIRING: And you said that there was an inquest held and there's no specific outcome already, may I ask whether you received any compensation for the death of your son?
MR PHELE: I didn't receive any kind of help, not even from his organisation. No assistance was given to me.
PROF MEIRING: I see in your written statement you said that you buried your son at your own expense and there was no compensation from nobody, from no institution.
PROF MEIRING: Mr Phele thank you. I have asked the questions I needed to ask for clarification but I am positive that some of the other Commissioners also want to add questions. I hand you over to them.
DR RANDERA: Thank you Professor Meiring. Mr Mantata?
MR MANTATA: Did Frans according to your observation continue attending PAC meetings?
MR PHELE: Yes he used to attend the PAC meetings in Zone 13. He was an active member.
MR MANTATA: And was he the only one who was being followed by this Golf or were there other PAC members who were similar victims of this car?
MR PHELE: I only know him. I don't know of any other who had been a victim of the white Golf.
MR MANTATA: At what point did Mavundla stop representing
MR PHELE: The case is still in his hands but I don't get any reply from him. What he came to request he asked me about the expenses of the funeral and he wanted the certificates and I sent him all the necessary information but thereafter I never got any response from him.
MR MANTATA: But at the funeral was PAC represented?
MR PHELE: Many of them Sir were present.
MR MANTATA: Thank you. No further questions.
MS SEROKE: This car that you even know of the registration did you ever at any stage get to know who the owner of the car was?
MR PHELE: Yes we knew who was the driver of the car, it was Constable Mohapi.
MS SEROKE: You said when your child came back from Tanzania he went back to school, what standard was he doing?
MR PHELE: I took him back to standard 8 because he left without completing it.
DR RANDERA: Mr Phele I wonder if I can just ask you a few more questions. Can you please tell us are you a member of the PAC yourself, or are you a member of any political organisation?
MR PHELE: I am an ANC member, I belong to the ANC organisation.
DR RANDERA: Now you say your son left in 1990 and then came back in 1991, why did he leave and where did he go to?
MR PHELE: He left with his friends. They all belonged to the PAC. I was only told that your son is not here anymore. Some of the parents came to me whose children had already left. The reasons for his leaving South Africa I do not know.
DR RANDERA: From your statement it sounds like from the time that Frans came back he was being harassed and then like so many others in this area and the historians have called this "drive-by shootings" you know, many people seemed to have lost their lives that way. Can you in your own words tell us what do you think the motive was for killing your son?
MR PHELE: I think his arrest led to his death so that they can wipe the evidence. Maybe the case was too heavy for them. Maybe they felt guilty for arresting him for sweet nothing. I think they decided then to wipe him off.
DR RANDERA: And my last question is related to this car again. You say when you were making a statement with these other young friends of your son you saw the car there and you recognised the people who came out of the car, is that how you found out that the car belonged to this Constable Mohapi that you just mentioned?
MR PHELE: That's where I realised that it was a police car.
DR RANDERA: It was a police car or it belonged to a policeman?
MR PHELE: It was a police car. It even had an aerial. The people who were occupying the car were the policemen.
DR RANDERA: And this Constable Mohapi is he still working for the police?
MR PHELE: A few months ago he was still working for the Police Services. I don't know at this stage where he is.
DR RANDERA: Mr Phele my last question is, what is your expectation from the Truth Commission?
MR PHELE: I have just one request from the Truth Commission. The funeral expenses were heavy on me and I
still have to erect a tombstone. I would request that TRC erect a tombstone for this child. Since the funeral expenses I cannot go back to my normal financial situation.
DR RANDERA: Thank you Sir. Mr Phele we have listened carefully to your story. Like so many other parents you mourn for your son still, and we empathise with you on that. We have listened to your requests and we have noted those requests and we hope that we will be able to help you in your requests. Thank you very much for coming today.