amntrans AMNESTY HEARING 1998-07-31 PRETORIA 10 GERHARDUS CORNELIUS BEESLAAR https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=52744&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/amntrans/1998/98072031_pre_cosatu10.htm MR ROSSOUW Mr Chairman, I believe that there is still other members of Vlakplaas who must proceed. MR DU PLESSIS Sorry Mr Chairman, may I perhaps just ask if my client Mr Bellinghan may be excused? CHAIRPERSON On the same basis as the other. MR DU PLESSIS As it pleases you Mr Chairman, he's going nowhere. Mr Chairman, may I call my client Mr Beeslaar? ADV DE JAGER Mr Rossouw, please keep in mind that if some of your other clients or applicants could perhaps help with Mr Willemse's application that you would submit that to us, anything that can tell us what his role was. We accept that he can't be here as a result of the attack on him but we would like some corroboration of what he's saying in his statement. MR ROSSOUW Mr Chairman, yes, I have as far as my clients are concerned, there's no real evidence as far as the direct role of Mr Willemse is concerned that I can place through them on the record apart from to confirm what I've done yesterday is that he was with Mr Snor Vermeulen and that that was accepted, the evidence by us. MR MPSHE Mr Chairman, I don't know which one is fastest or the swiftest between changing their mikes now and then or the members coming over to the mikes because there's going to be that interruption now and then. GERHARDUS CORNELIUS BEESLAAR (sworn states) EXAMINATION BY MR DU PLESSIS Mr Chairman, may I just remind you that his application was an extra document because his application was not contained in the bundle which I handed to you at the beginning of the hearing? CHAIRPERSON The search now starts. MR DU PLESSIS Yes Mr Chairman, it's numbered page 32 and it says "Beeslaar, Schedule 2, Cosatu House." He's only applying for Cosatu House. CHAIRPERSON I take it the rest of his application has been lodged, it is in the file somewhere but it hasn't been connected here. MR DU PLESSIS Yes Mr Chairman, he has also given extensive evidence in the PEBCO 3 Matter for instance. CHAIRPERSON Should we call him applicant number 36? MR DU PLESSIS As it pleases you Mr Chairman. CHAIRPERSON Have we got another 36? MR DU PLESSIS I think it will be 37, Mr Chairman, yes. Mr Chairman, before I start with the evidence may I perhaps just refer you to page 32, the first page, the date there should be 1987 and not 1988, it's just a formality and then in respect of the acts for which amnesty is sought, I will endeavour to include quite a few other offences in the heads of argument when I hand the heads of argument to you, so I just want to point that out that that is not the only offence applied for. May I proceed, Mr Chairman? Thank you. Mr Beeslaar, do you have your application in front of you? MR BEESLAAR Yes. MR DU PLESSIS Now do you confirm the correctness of typed page 34 to page 37 as far as the political motivation was concerned with which you acted? MR BEESLAAR Yes, I confirm that. MR DU PLESSIS You've also heard the evidence from Mr Vlok down all the other applicants who were involved in this action, Colonel de Kock for instance, under whose instructions you acted. Do you confirm their political motivation which they gave? MR BEESLAAR Yes, I do. MR DU PLESSIS And you acted on the direct orders of Colonel de Kock, is that correct? MR BEESLAAR Yes. MR DU PLESSIS Did you derive any financial benefit from this operation? MR BEESLAAR No. MR DU PLESSIS Did you support the National Party and it's policy? MR BEESLAAR Yes. MR DU PLESSIS Did you believe that your actions were aimed at combating of the revolutionary onslaught of the liberation movements against South Africa? MR BEESLAAR Yes. MR DU PLESSIS You also believed that you were part of the struggle against Communism? MR BEESLAAR Yes. MR DU PLESSIS And your version of the events are set out on page 34, do you confirm the correctness in that? MR BEESLAAR Yes. MR DU PLESSIS You also hear the evidence of Major Baker and Mr Bosch? MR BEESLAAR Yes. MR DU PLESSIS They were in the vehicle with you? MR BEESLAAR Yes. MR DU PLESSIS Do you confirm their evidence as correct? MR BEESLAAR Yes I do. MR DU PLESSIS Thank you Mr Chairman, I've no further questions. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR DU PLESSIS MR ROSSOUW Mr Chairman, maybe I can just ask him? CHAIRPERSON Put yourself on record. CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR ROSSOUW Rossouw on record Mr Chairman, sorry. Mr Beeslaar, do you have any recollection of what Mr Dow Willemse's involvement was in this operation? MR BEESLAAR No I have no recollection of that. MR DU PLESSIS Mr Chairman, I beg your pardon. Mr Beeslaar asked me for an opportunity to read something to the Committee if he could just have the opportunity to do that? Would you please continue Mr Beeslaar? MR BEESLAAR I believe that be revealing the truth and by confessing our sins of the past, sins on both sides to confess this and repent before God. He will give forgiveness and reconciliation. Who are we as weak human beings not to forgive each others sins. Thank you. MR VISSER Mr Chairman, Visser on record. No questions but if I may make a suggestion, for purposes of reference perhaps in written argument, could this affidavit perhaps be numbered 272 in Volume 2, Mr Chairman, because then it will be easy to refer to it. The last page now is 271 in Volume 2. That one's marked as an Exhibit M, Exhibit L and Exhibit M is his schedule so perhaps this should just be an exhibit number. CHAIRPERSON The other ones where we have called them a,b and c we have been adding to existing file documents but I think if this comes in now I agree that it would, and where have we got to U, is it? MR VISSER Yes, Mr Chairman, U. So it would be Exhibit V. Thank you Mr Chairman, may the witness be excused? Thank you Mr Chairman. Mr Chairman, I believe the next witness will be Mr Zeelie on behalf, as part of the Johannesburg Branch. WITNESS EXCUSED