amntrans AMNESTY HEARING 1998-07-29 PRETORIA 8 JOHANNES ALBERTUS STEYN AM4513/97 https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=52764&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/amntrans/1998/98072031_pre_cosatu8.htm MR VISSER Thank you Mr Chairman. The next witness is General Steyn. CHAIRPERSON ...[inaudible] MR VISSER Oh, I'm sorry. CHAIRPERSON ...[inaudible] MICROPHONES SWITCHED OFF CHAIRPERSON The applications that we are going to hear, we wish to make it clear that we intend insofar as possible, to dispose of now all the Cry Freedom Applications. We understand that one or two applicants may not be present at the present time but arrangements can be made for them to be hear tomorrow or Friday, preferably tomorrow. If we have gone on with some evidence we will interpose the Cry Freedom applications to dispose of them. The reason for this is that it appears possible, if not probably, that the hearing will not be completed by Friday and it seems ridiculous that people who are only involved in the Cry Freedom applications, that they and their legal advisors should have sat here for two weeks and that they should then have to come back for a further hearing. So to avoid that we will now proceed with the Cry Freedom ones. MR VISSER Visser on record. General Johannes Albertus Steyn. You will find his application in Volume 2, page 226 and following. May I immediately at this juncture Mr Chairman, draw your attention to the fact that part of his application which ought to be before you has fallen out after page 230. We made photocopies of the rest of that paragraph 10 which ought to be before you and we ask you to include those in his application in the bundle as pages 230(a) and 230(b), the two pages which my attorney has placed before you Mr Chairman. CHAIRPERSON ...[inaudible]. Very well. MR VISSER The General is available to give evidence. MR HUGO Mr Chairman, just before this witness gives evidence, may I just request, as I understand the ruling now we are going to have three or four cry freedom people giving evidence and that will probably last at least until after the lunch adjournment as I foresee it because I've gone through the applications, it doesn't seem as if that in fact has any link to my client at all. May I be excused for the part of Cry Freedom part, if I may call it that? CHAIRPERSON You may but I don't guarantee that it will last till lunch time. ...[inaudible] MR HUGO Mr Chairman, I would like to back your estimate then and then I would in that case not excuse myself beyond return. JOHANNES ALBERTUS STEYN (sworn states) EXAMINATION BY MR VISSER General Steyn, you were a member of the South African Police. You're also an applicant before this Amnesty Committee where you are applying for any unlawful deeds or omissions which were committed by you regarding an explosion at the Metro 2 theatre in West Street, Durban in 1988, with regard to the film Cry Freedom, is that correct? GEN STEYN That is correct. MR VISSER Your application appears on page 226 and goes on till 236 of Volume 2 and two pages have been included in that, page 230(a) and (b). Do you confirm the correctness of the content of the facts which you have set out in your amnesty application? GEN STEYN I do. MR VISSER You also request that in your case the documents which are Exhibits P45, P46 and P47 which have been served to the Committee, be included in your application, is that correct? GEN STEYN Yes. MR VISSER Were you born on the 30th of September 1939 in Viljoenskroon in the Free State? GEN STEYN Correct Chairperson. MR VISSER And did you grow up in a conservative environment and later join the South African Police, is that correct? GEN STEYN That's correct. MR VISSER You have given a short and concise summary of your service in the South African Police, and that appears on page 227 of Volume 2, is that correct? GEN STEYN That is correct. MR VISSER General, can we go directly to the issue of your share in the Cry Freedom film screening. Could you tell us what your share was in that? GEN STEYN Chairperson, on the 29th of July 1988 ...[intervention] CHAIRPERSON Which date? GEN STEYN 29th of July 1988. MR VISSER I should have referred you to page 231, I'm sorry Mr Chairman. GEN STEYN Chairperson, while I was the Divisional Commander in Durban I received a telephone call from the Security Head Office in Pretoria. I received an order to cease the screening of the film Cry Freedom, about the life of Steve Biko, by means of a controlled explosion which would occur at theatres. I was also to make anonymous bomb threats to the theatres in order to prevent the film being screened. MR VISSER General, you say on page 232 at the top, that you don't know who it was who phoned you? GEN STEYN That's correct, I can't remember who phoned me. MR VISSER Very well, proceed. GEN STEYN My order was that should the film be screened it would increase the existing revolutionary climate of that time. MR VISSER Were you informed regarding the content of the film and why it would increase the revolutionary climate? GEN STEYN At that point it was told to me that the content was of the nature that if it were to be distributed and seen by a number of people it would definitely influence the already existing climate of violence and unrest and that it would have a definite effect on it. MR VISSER Apart from the fact that you received an order from the Security Head Office, what was your view regarding factors which could possibly increase the revolutionary climate of that time? GEN STEYN Any screening, for example in the case of a film wherein which racial hatred would be aggravated or where reference would be made to circumstances of the past which at that time were in effect, would be interpreted by the audience that this would be a further aspect of the oppression of that time, the so-called oppression and this would lead to further acts of violence being committed by those who saw the film. MR VISSER In other words you received an order and you agreed with the content of the order and that is why you undertook to perform the order? GEN STEYN That's correct. MR VISSER As you understood the order, what did you do as a result thereof? GEN STEYN After I received the order I went to the then Major MC Botha who was the head of the division explosives in Durban and gave him the order as I had received it from head office. I said to Mr Botha that he should stop the screening of the film by means of a small charge explosive and that he should prevent any deaths or injuries and cause minimal damage. MR VISSER Was that part of the instruction that you received from Head Office? GEN STEYN That is correct. MR VISSER Were you kept up to date? GEN STEYN Yes, Mr Botha kept me up to date. I later received a message from him that an explosion had taken place. I myself went to the scene at the theatre, Metro 2. I saw that damage had been done to the theatre and I took note that there had been no injuries or deaths. MR VISSER Apart from this matter and you evidence thusfar, is there anything else that you can say which would take the matter further for the Committee? GEN STEYN Regarding the actual circumstances surrounding the explosion, that is all. MR VISSER Mr Botha will testify regarding that. GEN STEYN That's correct. MR VISSER Would you allow me a moment Mr Chairman. I've got no further questions. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR VISSER CHAIRPERSON I think rather than us going all the way round as we did before we adopt a different system. If anybody has any questions would they kindly indicate so. Once again Mr Mpshe. CROSS-EXAMINATION BY ADV MPSHE Mr Steyn, did you see the film? GEN STEYN No, I did not see the film. ADV MPSHE Now you testified that you were told that the showing of this film will cause an escalation in the revolutionary climate, who told you this? GEN STEYN The person from whom I received the order from head office. ADV MPSHE Did he tell you this over the telephone? GEN STEYN That is correct. ADV MPSHE How long did the conversation take? GEN STEYN I can't recall for how long we had this discussion. ADV MPSHE And you believed what he told you over the telephone about the film? GEN STEYN I believed him. ADV MPSHE And deemed it fit to act on the base of that information to destroy property? GEN STEYN That's correct. ADV MPSHE No further questions Mr Chairman. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY ADV MPSHE MR VISSER No re-examination Mr Chairman. NO RE-EXAMINATION BY MR VISSER MS GCABASHE General, have you told us who this person is who instructed you? CHAIRPERSON I take it that anybody who phoned you from headquarters to instruct you to do something would somebody of a fairly senior rank? GEN STEYN That is correct. CHAIRPERSON Somebody senior to yourself? GEN STEYN Definitely. MS GCABASHE And then in that conversation, did he say anything about the types of cinemas you were to target? Was there any distinction at all, because at that time you'd have cinemas owned by so-called Indian businessmen and cinemas owned by white businessmen. Did they say anything at all about that? GEN STEYN Chairperson, it was about those theatres in which the film Cry Freedom would be screened. MS GCABASHE Thank you. MR SIBANYONI General Steyn, was it supposed to be the actual bomb blasting or merely a bomb scare? What was the type of order? GEN STEYN It was of a dual nature. There had to be a bomb threat as well as a small charge explosive. MR SIBANYONI No further questions Mr Chairman. CHAIRPERSON Thank you. WITNESS EXCUSED