amntrans TRUTH AND RECONCILIATION Commission, AMNESTY HEARING 1998-07-30 PRETORIA 9 A C KENDALL AM3757/96 https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=52768&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/amntrans/1998/98072031_pre_cosatu9.htm MR POLSEN The next witness will be Colonel Kendall. If that suits everybody, could I go ahead? A C KENDALL (sworn states) Thank you, Mr Chairman, before I lead the evidence, I asked my learned friend to place before you a small bundle... (intervention). CHAIRPERSON Will you wait please. It is impossible, certainly for myself and Adv de Jager, I think for all of us here to see the applicant with that light just behind him, would it be possible for you and the applicant to move up? Perhaps Mr Hugo would be kind enough to let you have his seat. ...[inaudible] Committee on this applicant, his application is in the bundle, but his counsel has failed to give to the Committee members only the full application which was bound and give it to you this morning. It is the same as in the bundle. CHAIRPERSON Where in the bundle? On page 86 in the bundle, page 86, volume 2, but it's the same as the one that was given to you this morning. Thank you, Mr Chairman, I'm indebted to my learned friend for that explanation. The reason why I compiled this little bundle for you is to enable you to be able to judge the merits of the application and whether it falls within the parameters of the Act as prescribed. May I refer you to this bundle? CHAIRPERSON Have you put your name on record, I'm sorry, I didn't hear. Sorry, I didn't, Mr Chairman, my name is Graham Polsen of the firm Rooth and Wessels and I act on behalf of the applicant. If you turn to the bundle which I placed before you, you will note that on page 1 is the original application. The application refers to certain incidents which are not relevant at this particular point in time. That application was supplemented at a later stage to add further incidents, and you will find that on page 6, to which I will refer you. Obviously some of the common information is contained in each and every one of the applications. Now then on page 11 you will find a description of the incidents for which amnesty is applied for in that particular application and they're irrelevant as far as these proceedings are concerned. If you will then be good enough to turn to page 22, I will ask you, and I've handed that to my colleagues, ask you to read that as part of this application, and it deals with the political motivation which applies in this particular case. Then, if you go to page 24, it is once again a supplementation of the application and deals with the background of the applicant. Some of it is relevant to this particular portion of the application, particularly, I don't want to deal with the full content of this, because it's irrelevant for this particular application. Then on page 29 there is a further supplementary notice dealing with an incident under paragraph 9 of the prescribed form, and that is a relevant one in this particular case, and it deals with Cry Freedom, any offence or delict arising from the dummy hand grenade and the planting thereof, and that is a relevant application before you. And then if you'd be good enough to turn to page 32, that is the same affidavit that is in my learned friends' bundle No 2 on page 87, and deals specifically with the Cry Freedom incident for which application is being made in this instance. Mr Chairman, I will now present the evidence. CHAIRPERSON Before you do that, this document you've handed in is, I think, too lengthy to add to volume 2, it will have to be a separate document and I think, for clarity's sake, we should give it an exhibit number, and I think it will be T. DOCUMENT HANDED IN AS EXHIBIT T CHAIRPERSON I take it we're just going to deal with the factual part, the others, you have drawn our attention to where the matters are dealt with in the affidavit and we can refer to them when we wish to? I don't think it's necessary and I think this applies to all the subsequent applicants who are, as I understand it, all committing acts as a result of the orders they were given, but the background, unless there's anything particular you wish to draw our attention to, we can consider later. Thank you, Mr Chairman, I will be brief with those (indistinct). CHAIRPERSON Actually, Colonel Kendall may be a little bit higher than - my remarks may be more apt with regard to the foot soldiers who appear later, I think the colonel may possibly have some responsibility that he wishes to explain, so we won't... (intervention). Okay. Thank you, we've taken note of your comments, Mr Chairman. Colonel, can you tell us, when were you in the Police Force? I joined 9th November 1967, and I left the Force on the 30th of April 1993. What was your rank? When I left I was a lieutenant-colonel. Can you give us your Force number? 51667. You were involved in the Cry Freedom incident? That's correct. Can you still remember in what way you became involved? Before I do that, I just want to point out that there is a big difference between a landmine and a mini limpet mine. I only noticed now that the application says a dummy landmine, but it's actually a mini limpet mine. Colonel, we'll give you that opportunity to explain that just now, let us just follow the pattern. You were involved in the Cry Freedom incident, is that correct? Yes. When was this? It was during 1988. Do you want to continue and to tell us how you became involved? At that stage, I was involved in the Stratcom component of the Security Branch head office. Where is that head office? It was in Pretoria. We were not in the same building as the head office itself, we were in a building on the corner of Pretorius and Bosman Streets. Thank you. So it was in Pretoria. During which year? 1988. When did you hear about Cry Freedom for the first time? If I remember correctly, there had been speculation in the press beforehand about this film which was to be screened and that it had been approved by the Censor Board which gave approval for the film to be screened. MR DE JAGER Mr Polsen, is he now referring to paragraph 3 on page 32? Yes, and also on page 87 of that bundle, it's volume 2, it's the same statement. You've now heard that Cry Freedom was a film and that it could have a disruptive effect. Where did you hear that from? I heard this from Brigadier Robert McIntyre. Was he your head, was he your boss? He was my commanding officer. What did he ask you to do in respect of Cry Freedom? Brigadier McIntyre was attached to head office, we were in a different building, he came back, I think it was a Friday morning, I don't know for sure anymore, and the film was to be screened from that day onwards in theatres across the country. He put it to us that the Security Police should be notified countrywide that disrupting actions should take place at these theatres across the country. I was given the task of notifying the various departments. I can't remember too clearly whether I did so by telephone, we did so in many cases, we would contact the divisional head, or whether it was done by means of a cryptogram. Could you just tell us, what was the political situation in the country at the time as regards security and the political situation? I would like to link up with what the previous applicants, Minister Vlok, General Van der Merwe and so on have said regarding the political scenario at the time, in other words the political situation of the eighties. It was also my view that it was like a pressure cooker, the security forces simply had to keep the lid on the situation to prevent it from exploding and causing total anarchy and chaos in the country, and it was in this light that I carried out this order and also became involved in the action which I'll describe later. Perhaps you can just describe it for us right now? If I remember correctly, after the various branches or divisions were notified, Brigadier McIntyre and I discussed the issue regarding the theatres in Pretoria, or specifically one theatre... (intervention). Which one? I can't remember the name of the theatre, it was in Esselen Street in Sunnyside. It was definitely in Esselen Street in Sunnyside. It's no longer a theatre today? No, not as far as I know. Please continue. What did you do thereafter? We then decided that, as we had also suggested to the various divisions, that we should make bomb threats to these theatres, and Brigadier McIntyre then contacted the Explosives Department, Mr George Maxwell was contacted, and requested a mini limpet mine, which was totally harmless... (intervention). Is this now Stratcom but not Vlakplaas? You were at Stratcom and not at Vlakplaas, because then you would have known these terms? That is correct, yes. And I've also been out of circulation for a long time, and also a little bit nervous. Yes. And that is what you actually mean and that is what you're applying for amnesty for? Correct, yes. Please continue. Colonel, this landmine, was it charged, was it activated? Once again, it's not a landmine... (intervention). Sorry, it is a mini limpet mine, was it activated? No, not at all, its detonator and even the explosives had been removed from it by Mr Hammond and his department. Is that the reason why the dogs could not find it? There is such a thing as contamination, Chairperson, the smell would always cling to such an object if I remember from my training correctly. Let us hope it's not the same dog as the one that searched the premises this morning. It might be related to it. The fact that the dogs could not find the mini limpet mine and that there was a second disruption was actually a bonus for you, for the whole operation? Chairperson, I would say that one could regard it as a bonus, but the fact that it wasn't traced, well I can't give you an answer about that, it happened so long ago, I really had to dig very deep to actually be able to put these facts on the table today. Now after the operation was completed, did you report back to anybody about it? As I said, that is the only matter on which I reported back regarding disrupting actions at the Cry Freedom screenings. I also can't recall what happened in the other theatres across the country and I can't remember, and this is speculation, whether Brigadier McIntyre made a full report to General Van der Merwe. Just to get back to the political objective which you were pursuing, that is set out on, or in your affidavit, can you confirm that, can you recall that you read it and that you motivated it and that you confirmed it? Yes. So in summary it can be said that you come from a conservative Afrikaans background and that you were an active member of the National Party from your early days onwards? CHAIRPERSON A member of the National Party? That is correct. That is correct, Chairperson. Which church did you belong to? It was the Dutch Reformed Church. And where did your sympathies lie in the political order of the day? Most definitely with the government of the day, with the National Party. And when you committed these acts, what was your objective? How did you align that with your political views? As I described the security situation just now, as also Mr Vlok and General Van der Merwe described far clearer than I did, one could also state it as follows, or I would like to state as follows, that, I've also listened to the applicant De Kock, that at that time I realised that the National Party was busy moving away from discriminatory legislation, and that the government was under pressure from both the left and the right, from the right wing not to continue, and from the left to actually proceed even faster, and as I've said, the security situation was, as everyone will be able to remember, well it was such that limpet mines were planted, we've heard about the bomb explosions, several buildings were involved, there were strikes, I can't remember correctly, but I think there was a state of emergency at the time, or before or afterwards, so the security situation was such that if the lid blew off, then the country would have been plunged into anarchy and chaos, and that is how I experienced it and what I believed at the time. So your action was aimed at the bolstering of the existing dispensation of the day? Yes. As far as the reconciliation aspect is concerned, since these events you've had an opportunity to live in South Africa since 1990, what are your views regarding human relations and your relations with other fellow South Africans? I really believe in reconciliation and I believe that if you keep your ears and your eyes open out there, then reconciliation is actually busy manifesting itself in this country. I would like to add that what I experience today in this country of ours is that sun shines on everybody and I hope that no group will ever again try to just have the sun shine just on them, because then we would have a repeat of the same situation in which I find myself today. I have no further questions. MR VISSER Visser, on record, Mr Chairman, I have no questions to this witness, thank you. NO QUESTIONS BY MR VISSER NO CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR VISSER CHAIRPERSON Well, shall we do what we did earlier, has anybody got any questions? Mr Du Plessis? Thank you, Mr Chairman, very shortly. Colonel Kendall, my client, Colonel Hammond, says that he can't recall the incident, and I'm just putting it to you, he can't recall the incident where you got the limpet mine from him, but he says that it is possible, because they regularly made available dummy limpet mines for various purposes, for training and for lectures to the public, etcetera, and he says as well, and you may react to that, that if you came to fetch it from him, you never told him what the purpose of it was and that he would never have known what it was to be used for? Chairperson, as I said just now, I had to dig very deeply into my memory to be able to put these facts on the table today, and I am not going to dispute the matter with Mr Hammond. It is true that on various other occasions I had received certain things from him and other members of the Explosives Unit, and if he can't recall that, well I won't dispute it. You would also not dispute the fact that he says that he didn't know what it was to be used for, or wouldn't have known? No, I can't dispute that. Mr Kendall, my instructions from Mr Mogoai, which I want to put to you, is as follows: he was not involved in this incident and inasfar as you've implicated him here, he denies his involvement? Once again, I must say that this incident took place more than ten years ago, I've dug down deeply into my memory to give you these facts as I recall them, I'm not going to dispute this with Mr Mogoai, that's all I can say. Thank you, Mr Chairman. MR DE JAGER This person who you got to go and help you, was he in your office or did he come from another division, this person that you referred to, Mr Mogoai, was he working in your office? At that stage Mr Mogoai was working for the Stratcom unit. MR LAMEY Mr Chairman, I just want to place on record that that aspect is not in dispute, he did in fact work in that, among other Askaris as well, also there. Thank you. Could I just ask briefly, does this mean that you didn't talk to Mr Mogoai at all prior to this about his possible involvement in this, you didn't consult him at all, to help refresh your own memory? No, I didn't, Chairman. CROSS-EXAMINATION BY ADV MPSHE Mr Kendall, did you see the film? Not at that stage, I saw it about two or three years ago. ADV MPSHE Is it after the incident or before the incident? No, as I said, at that stage I hadn't seen it, in other words I hadn't seen it before the disrupting action which we took, I saw it about two or three years ago, when it was screened on television, that was the first time I saw it. ADV MPSHE Now at that time when you were placing this mini limpet mine, did you know the reasons why you had to do this operation? As I've already said, it was a controversial film, especially given the security situation, which I've already sketched, and the content of the film, according to the higher authority, well I don't know exactly why the order was given, but I think it was because the screening of the film would have aggravated the already bad security situation in the country. ADV MPSHE Mr Kendall, am I right that what you are telling us now is what you were told, it's not your personal knowledge? That was my personal opinion at that stage. ADV MPSHE But you had not seen the film, how could you come to such a conclusion? The film had been discussed in the newspapers as well, and it dealt with a black activist, Mr Steve Biko, and Mr Donald Woods. Both of these men had been activists in the Eastern Cape, Mr Biko for the Black Consciousness Movement and I can't recall, but I think Mr Donald Woods had been under a restriction or banning orders, and the film dealt, as I also saw later, dealt with the Security Branch in PE's assault on Mr Biko which led to his death. As we all know, there have been applications for amnesty in this regard relating to Mr Biko's death and I only saw the true facts in the newspaper, and at that stage there were denials from all sides that the security police had been responsible for Mr Biko's assault or anything which led to his death. There was a judicial inquest and no single member of the security police was ever charged after the inquest, so from what I read in the newspapers, the situation was that the security police would have been implicated and portrayed as rogues. ADV MPSHE I really wonder what question you're now answering, but let us continue. Did this take-over of this operation bring any political change or confirm any political change there? Could you please repeat the question? ADV MPSHE Did this operation, the "ontwrigtingsaksie", bring or cause any political change? Not at that stage. CHAIRPERSON As I understand, it wasn't intended to bring any change, it was intended to prevent further change? That's correct. ADV MPSHE Thank you, Mr Chairman, I stand corrected. And that will be all. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY ADV MPSHE CHAIRPERSON I take it there's no re-examination? MR POLSEN There is no re-examination, thank you. NO RE-EXAMINATION BY MR POLSEN CHAIRPERSON Thank you. WITNESS EXCUSED