amntrans AMNESTY HEARING 1998-07-30 PRETORIA 9 WILHELM RIAAN BELLINGHAN https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=52772&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/amntrans/1998/98072031_pre_cosatu9.htm I call Mr Bellinghan, Mr Chairman. WILHELM RIAAN BELLINGHAN (sworn states) Mr Bellinghan, like your colleague before you, you're applying for the amnesty for your involvement in the bombing of Cosatu House? Sorry, I beg your pardon, Mr Chairman, it's volume 1 and it's at page 247. As set out at page 261, you apply for amnesty for damage flowing from the, and any other offence or delict flowing from the explosion at Khotso House, is that correct? That is correct, Chairperson. Now, just starting at page 247, is there anything you want to add? No, everything still remains the same. On page 248, is it correct to say that right from the outset, you were at Vlakplaas? Yes, that's correct. So you started working under Dirk Coetzee? Yes, that's correct. Perhaps just an additional bit of background here, which perhaps was not clear, as different commanding officers came and went, did things at Vlakplaas change, did it become more disciplined and structured? Yes, that's correct. For instance, we've heard that Colonel De Kock testified that you, at all times when you worked outside of your normal area, were under the command of the Security Branch commander of that area, and that he would be notified of your presence. Was that always the case? That was the instruction from Brigadier Schoon from 1981. Some of the senior members did not keep to that and Brigadier Schoon reprimanded them about that, it was an order that you would always report to the divisional commander of that region. You say some of the senior members did not keep to that, and that there was an order from Brigadier Schoon that they should report... (intervention). Please just go a little bit slower. Brigadier Schoon said to the members that they all had to report to the divisional commanding officer and he would then tell them where to go and work. Some people did not keep to this arrangement, they, for instance, didn't say when they were going to the Eastern Transvaal or wherever, and at a later conference there was a bit of a spat about this, about certain members of Vlakplaas who didn't co-operate. That changed drastically with the advent of Colonel Jannie Coetzee, Jack Cronje and Eugene de Kock. When he took over, he laid down this rule once and for all that there would be co-ordination and that it wouldn't be a sort of a random movement into these various regions. So is the inference justified that during Dirk Coetzee's time the discipline was not as strict? Yes, he was only there for a very brief period as a commanding officer, I think for about three months, and that was in the beginning stages, and it was a little bit confused at the time. Do you confirm the rest of what is said on page 248? Yes, I do. Let us deal with the background, from 249 onwards to 260. Up to page 260, do you confirm the correctness of the contents of those pages, as far as your background is concerned? Yes. You also heard the evidence of Colonel De Kock, Mr Vlok and General Van der Merwe? That's correct, Yes. And as far as you know, you agree with their testimony? Yes. If we then look at the role which you played yourself in the Cosatu House incident, on page 261 you say that you received an order from Colonel De Kock? Correct. Were you given a brief outline as to the reasons and motivation for the operation? Yes. It appears from your evidence as to what Colonel de Kock told you, is that the reasons that were given to you, the last paragraph, 261 and 261(a), it appears from those paragraphs? Correct. Were you satisfied in your own mind that that constituted a sufficient reason for you to take part in the operation? Yes. Did you accept the motivation as a sufficient motivation for this action? Yes. And did you see it in the context of your role as a security policeman, as also appears from your written evidence? That's correct. You then give an explanation of how you went to Honeydew and then departed for Cosatu House? Yes. You, Sergeant Willemse and Warrant Officer Gadebe took members to the scene? Yes. And you had a .22 with a silencer and a leather baton, a cosh? Yes. Why? The cosh was to help us in a crisis situation on the ground. We didn't know what we would find in the building, there might have been freedom fighters, and as Colonel De Kock told us, we should take the necessary precautions. After the members went in and exited, you removed them? That's correct. The last paragraph on 261(a), you say that on the next day you made a call to General Van der Merwe's office at Brigadier Schoon's request, did you hear what Schoon told Van der Merwe, what he reported to him? I can't remember it verbatim, but he had a telephonic report-back, and he said he was staying on the farm for that day and he wasn't coming in to the office. He was a brigadier at that time, Van der Merwe, and I spoke to the secretary. Do you also confirm that Mr Vlok visited you and congratulated you? Correct. Did you hear the evidence of your colleague that he said he remembers it was about 18 months later, in other words towards the end of the next year? Yes, but I think he had been at the farm earlier, I don't know the exact date, but it wasn't very long after the incident. You mention, in the second paragraph, that you never questioned any orders for covert operations and you assumed that they were properly authorised and came from head office and were properly conveyed to you by De Kock? That's correct. Did you at any stage have any reason to doubt De Kock's credibility? No, none whatsoever. Mr De Kock was very strict about discipline? Yes, that's correct. It is also correct that some of the information conveyed to you, or could you verify this in any way? No. So you had to rely on what other people told you? Yes. And then, on page 264, you say that you believed that Cosatu House formed part of a place that was used and furthered a threat against the government of the day? Yes. And that's why you associated yourself with the plan of action? Yes. And that is why on pages 264 to 266, and you apply for amnesty for your participation in this operation? Yes. Just a moment please, Chairperson? Thank you, Mr Chairman, I've got no further questions. Mr Chairman, Visser on record. Mr Bellinghan, I put it to you that Mr Vlok went to Vlakplaas in October or November of 1988 for the first time, and you are wrong if you say he went there before that? I won't argue with Mr Visser, but I do know that it wasn't very long after the incident, maybe four to six months or so. I won't dispute what Mr Vlok says. Thank you, Mr Chairman. Mr Bellinghan, I put it to you that Mr Radebe says that he was not present when the initial order was given to you by De Kock to take part in the operation concerning Cosatu House. Is that true? I can't deny that, it may be that that is the case, that he was only in the vehicle with us. I have no further questions. By 1987, the people in Vlakplaas, or at Vlakplaas were generally already all seasoned killers and the discipline and the structure of Vlakplaas in 1981 is of course completely irrelevant, and I wish to place that on record. I think I should also add that the factual allegations that were made were mostly in fact incorrect. For instance Mr Coetzee was not the commander for three months, he was the commander for a period of 15 months, and I would therefore ask you to ignore all that evidence completely for any purposes, whether of this application or any other application. I have no questions on behalf of Ras, thank you, Mr Chairman. Mr Chairman, I seem to have been skipped in the process. Penzhorn. Just one question. Mr Bellinghan, on page 257 of volume 1, page 11 of that document of yours, right at the bottom of the page, there is a portion which deals with the video recordings that were made. Are you in any way aware of such a video, or did you see the video? Yes. I had the video in my possession, it was almost like a personal possession and I burnt it when Vlakplaas disbanded, I saw the video, because I was in the Cape at that time. This video, I'm inferring from the previous paragraphs, especially the second paragraph, where you said that Vlakplaas was at that stage very successful and Askaris regularly identified ANC and PAC terrorists for arrest within the Republic, and that paragraph then you also there refer to the major breakthrough which was made with the arrest of one Sipho and 25 others. Is that what the video dealt with? Yes, that's correct. As I said in my previous amnesty application in Cape Town, there'd been a series of successes which was condensed into eight minutes. My emphasis is on arrest. Is it correct that it dealt with arrests, successful arrests that were made? Successful arrests and where members were killed during skirmishes with the security forces. Were members or... (intervention). I'm sorry, I mean freedom fighters. No. I have no further questions. Raditapole on behalf of Cosatu, Mr Chair. There's just one thing I'd like to clear. Please relax, I'm not intending to jeopardise your (indistinct). I'm definitely not stressed, sir. I just need to understand, did you participate in this mission because you were following orders, or did you participate because you believed Cosatu to be connected with the ANC and the struggle? We were engaged in a process, it was part of our orders, and we believed in what the orders said, and if Cosatu was involved and if some of their liberation fighters were involved, well yes. Well where I'm driving to is, does it matter whether you believed in the order or not? I mean the point is, there was an order, you had to carry it out, (indistinct)? Yes, I believed in the order. Colonel De Kock never came to me with any unreasonable orders. So are you saying if you didn't believe in a particular order, you'd refuse to take part in - you'd disobey orders? Yes, you had the choice, but fortunately I only received the orders that were lawful in those terms. NO CROSS-EXAMINATION BY ADV MPSHE NO RE-EXAMINATION BY MR DU PLESSIS WITNESS EXCUSED