amntrans AMNESTY HEARING 1998-10-20 DURBAN 2 ALFIUS JACKSON JEKE AM 2783/06 https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=52921&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/amntrans/1998/98101922_dbn_dbn1_2.htm CHAIRPERSON ... Jeke, Bheki Alfius Nzama, Andreas Sibokwake Sithole. The Committee consists of myself, Andrew Wilson and Judges, Potgieter and Khampepe. ADV PRIOR Thank you, Mr Chairman, Evidence Leader for the Amnesty Committee, Advocate P C Prior and for the applicants, Mr Siven Samuel. If he could just maybe just identity his voice on record for purposes of the transcription. MR SAMUEL For the applicants, Siven Samuel. CHAIRPERSON Right, Mr Prior, what is the position? Have the victims and interested parties been notified? ADV PRIOR Yes, Mr Chairman, I do have notices, Form 2 notices that were delivered by hand I understand from our Investigation Unit, on the Matelani family and the Ngobo family. Unfortunately they have not yet arrived. I don't know what the reason for that is but there was service. The actual return of service is being faxed to us from the Pinetown office this morning. Mr Chairman, may I place on record that in respect of Mr Lubuza, one of the next of kin, the address that he gave: 601 Demat, Marion Hill The owner of the property was contacted, in fact was visited and he doesn't know Mr Lubuzo. There is no further address for Mr Lubuzo. There were two implicated persons, one, Mr Themba Mthethwa and one, Mr Fezekile Mabida. Unfortunately their addresses were given as: Bottlebrush Shack Settlement Unfortunately, Mr Chairman, no better address could be found and no-one knew them at that settlement. The events occurred almost five years ago. So I do have those notices with me. Other than that we are ready to proceed. As far as the applicants are concerned, Mr Samuel I understand is accepting the bundle that we put up, especially the judgment of His Lordship, Mr Justice Nicholson. And depending on the attitude of the Committee, I would ask that the bundle be marked A. CHAIRPERSON Do you agree, Mr Samuel? MR SAMUEL I agree. CHAIRPERSON It appears to me that this is one of the unusual cases perhaps, where the judgment accords with the application and deals with most of the facts that come before us. Right, carry on with your applications. MR SAMUEL Thank you M'Lord. Is the applicant to be sworn in M'Lord? CHAIRPERSON Which one is it? MR SAMUEL I call Jackson Alfius Jeke, M'Lord. ADV POTGIETER Are your full names, Alfius Jackson Jeke? MR MANYAMALA That is correct. CHAIRPERSON Do you have any objection to taking the oath? ALFIUS JACKSON JEKE (sworn states) EXAMINATION BY SAMUEL Mr Jeke, did you send an affidavit to the TRC Amnesty Committee asking for amnesty, arising out of the ...[intervention] MR JEKE Yes, that is correct. MR SAMUEL ...the criminal trial that you were an accused and convicted person of? MR JEKE That is correct. MR SAMUEL Now do you confirm the contents of your affidavit that you submitted to the TRC? MR JEKE Yes, I do confirm. MR SAMUEL Now briefly, Mr Jeke, were you affiliated to any political organisation during the time of the killing? MR JEKE That's correct. MR SAMUEL Which organisation was this? MR JEKE The ANC. MR SAMUEL What position did you hold with the ANC? MR JEKE I was a Deputy Chairperson of the branch. MR SAMUEL Which branch was this? MR JEKE Madiba branch. MR SAMUEL Which area did Madiba branch hold jurisdiction over? MR JEKE In the informal settlements just close to Chatsworth. MR SAMUEL What was this informal settlement called? MR JEKE It's Madiba. MR SAMUEL Is it also known as the Bottlebrush Settlement? MR JEKE That is correct. MR SAMUEL Now there were problems in the bottlebrush settlement between the residents and some criminals, is that correct? MR JEKE That is correct. MR SAMUEL Can you tell us briefly about the problems and what steps were taken by the community? MR JEKE The problems that we encountered were some groups who called themselves the "Mafia". They were terrorising the community, raping, robbing, armed robbery as well as housebreaking and any other related offences. As members of the community we formed a Peace Committee as well as a Development Committee in order to develop the area that we lived in and to unite the people. CHAIRPERSON Was this an ANC backed committee, were these ANC backed committees? MR JEKE Yes, all that we did was supported by the ANC. MR SAMUEL For the record, Mr Jeke, can you tell us did any other political party operate in the Bottlebrush Shacks Settlement, or the informal settlement? MR JEKE No, it was an ANC stronghold. MR SAMUEL Were there any other methods explored in dealing with the criminal element, like seeking the assistance of the police and what if - answer that question first. MR JEKE Yes, that is what we did at first but we always had problems with the police who were not very co-operative. MR SAMUEL Did the police investigate any activities of "The Mafia" in the area? MR JEKE The police dragged their feet with regard to the investigation of such matters. They didn't even want to venture into the area in order to take statements or try to quell the violence that was going on within the area. MS KHAMPEPE May I interpose, Mr Samuel? In the testimony that you've just given you pointed out that there were problems that you came across with the police as the members of the ANC, could you please tell us what these problems were that you encountered with regard to the police in asking assistance as members of the African National Congress? MR JEKE As members of the African National Congress, when we go to the police and liaise with them and ask for help, being sent by the community or members of the community, firstly they never used to believe what we told them or they simply adopted a don't care attitude and as a result we went to ask for a certain person in authority, to tell him about the problems that we were encountering as far as the police were concerned. MS KHAMPEPE Even that didn't help? MR JEKE Yes, that is correct. MR SAMUEL The area in which Bottlebrush was formed, what race of people lived in that area generally or predominantly? MR JEKE That was an Indian area or an Indian place but mainly there were people from different spheres of the community. MR SAMUEL And the police station, what race of policemen were at the Chatsworth Police Station? MR JEKE They were Indian policemen. MR SAMUEL Were they - did you get the impression that they were willing to assist the informal settlement or did you get the impression that they were unwilling to assist? MR JEKE The evidence points to the fact that they just did not care and they did not want to assist us in any way whatsoever. MR SAMUEL Tell us about the Development Committee that was formed, did they in any way come into confrontation with "The Mafia" group? MR JEKE Yes, the committee is the one that encountered the most problems and as a result members of the community were killed. That I know of there are three who died and the fourth one survived. MR SAMUEL Did anyone acknowledge responsibility for the killing? MR JEKE Yes, that is correct, there is somebody who acknowledged or claimed responsibility for the killings and especially when he was drunk he would tell people around him about the atrocity. MR SAMUEL Who is that person? MR JEKE His name is Mtogozisi Ntalane. MR SAMUEL Are you referring to the deceased on Count 2 in the criminal trial? MR JEKE Yes, that is correct. MR SAMUEL Now on the morning of the 26th of December 1993, were you in the Bottlebrush Settlement area? MR JEKE That is correct, I was there. MR SAMUEL Can you briefly tell us what transpired. MR JEKE There were members of the community who came to my place, they said they had a problem that they wanted to discuss with me, that there had been some girls who had been abducted the previous night or the previous day and there was no trace of the girls who had been abducted. They requested that I help them as a Deputy Chairperson of the branch because the Chairperson was not present at that time, it was during the holidays. They wanted us to go looking for the abducted girls. I joined them in their search. We went around looking for the girls who had been abducted. We ultimately were able to trace the abducted girls at a certain house. That is Sipho's house, who is the leader of this particular group. That is where we got the abducted girls. We also found members of "The Mafia" within Sipho's household. When we got there there were people already, I think members of the community. The girls explained and related as to how they reached the place because when we got there we found that the girls were naked, as well as members of "The Mafia" were naked. We received an explanation that they had been raped by the members of "The Mafia". They were raped throughout the night. That is where the community took a decision that these people should be killed because there was nothing that the police were doing and they were conducting a reign of terror in the area. MR SAMUEL These people were killed and subsequently the police made a few arrests, is that correct? MR JEKE Yes, that is when they started arresting people. MR SAMUEL The three of you were not arrested initially? MR JEKE That is correct. MR SAMUEL What did the community do after certain people were arrested and taken to the police station? MR JEKE The community came together and marched to the police station. When we arrived at the police station we were requested that we elect or choose a leader who was going to represent us. The attorney, Lina Zama was also present because the community wanted to explain as to how these men died and why were they killed. The community wanted to take responsibility for the killing and they wanted to explain to the Commissioner of Police as to how it happened. That is when a committee was formed, that is a committee with which we were going to liaise. As soon as we had related the story of the killing, as to how "The Mafia" gang was killed, the Commissioner of Police said he does not have the authority or the power to arrest all the people and he did not have a place to put the whole group in. MR SAMUEL I see. Arising of what you're saying, did the community say to the Commissioner of Police that he must arrest the entire community and put them in the cells? MR JEKE Yes, that is correct. MR SAMUEL Now the other two applicants with you, Mr Nzama and Mr Sithole, were they members of the ANC as well? MR JEKE That is correct. MR SAMUEL As I understand it you accept the Judgment and you accept responsibility for the killings. MR JEKE That is correct. MR SAMUEL And your amnesty is based on the fact that you were forced to take governance, take control and governance of the area that you lived in, and this was before 1994? MR JEKE That is correct. MR SAMUEL I have no further questions. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR SAMUEL CHAIRPERSON Mr Prior, do you have any questions? CROSS-EXAMINATION BY ADV PRIOR Just two or three matters, Mr Chairman. I noticed in the summary of substantial facts, the State during your trial alleged in paragraph 4 that the deceased in this matter had been approached by the accused and a crowd numbering between 50 and 100 of the community, is that correct? MR JEKE Yes, it could be, it's possible that there were about 50 to 100, that is correct. ADV PRIOR So when you were looking for these abducted girls that had been raped by "The Mafia", it seemed to my mind when reading the Judgment and the summary of facts that it was as if the community was also looking for these girls as a group and it wasn't just the few of you that had been elected, it was the community that was searching, is that correct? MR JEKE That is correct. ADV PRIOR There was just one other aspect, Mr Jeke. At page 65 of the bundle, Mr Chairman. It seemed that Mrs Matelani's child, the deceased, had escaped from police custody at some stage, do you know about that? MR JEKE Yes, that is correct. ADV PRIOR One last aspect. After this killing, are you able to tell the Committee what happened to the crime rate or the reign of terror of "The Mafia" gang in Bottlebrush Settlement? Did that continue or did that come to an end? MR JEKE There was a relative decrease of violence after the arrest. ADV PRIOR And "The Mafia" gang in particular, was that broken up as a result of the deaths of those members? MR JEKE Yes, that correct, there was a break-up of "The Mafia" gang, and the violence decreased. ADV PRIOR Thank you, Mr Chairman. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY ADV PRIOR CHAIRPERSON Could I, before the other two, just ask you some questions? As I understand from the Judgment, the Bottlebrush area was dominated by the ANC and was divided into wards or various districts that were administered to some extent by the ANC. MR JEKE Yes, that is correct. CHAIRPERSON The ANC was endeavouring to provide some assistance and government to the community? MR JEKE That is correct. CHAIRPERSON And as I understand from both the Judgment and your evidence, members of the community who got no assistance from the police would come to the ANC committees and ask them for help. MR JEKE Yes, some would come to us but some would go to the Development Committee. CHAIRPERSON Yes, but you would try to help them? MR JEKE That is correct. CHAIRPERSON And there was evidence led that you had taken steps to try to control "The Mafia" by on occasion beating them. MR JEKE That is correct. CHAIRPERSON By complaining to their parents and asking their parents to do something about it. MR JEKE That is correct. CHAIRPERSON And by exiling or banishing them from the area. MR JEKE Yes, that is correct. CHAIRPERSON And none of this had controlled them. MR JEKE That is correct. CHAIRPERSON So you were finally driven to use violence as you did, to try to bring about peace for the members of the community in your area. MR JEKE That is correct. CHAIRPERSON That is that the ANC felt responsibility for the people. MR JEKE That is correct. CHAIRPERSON Thank you. MS KHAMPEPE Mr Jeke, I've got just a few questions. According to your knowledge I can see in your application that you were borne in Mount Frere, that is in the Transkei? MR JEKE That is correct. MS KHAMPEPE According to your knowledge, this group who called themselves "The Mafia", when was it established and when did it start conducting a reign or terror in Bottlebrush? MR JEKE I think the incidents started happening from 1989 but the situation was rife after 1993 or from 1993, after or just before the 1994 elections. MS KHAMPEPE As the Deputy Chairperson of the ANC branch, did you see it important that there should be peace in the area so that the political objectives of the ANC could be fulfilled and which couldn't have been fulfilled in the presence of rife violence? MR JEKE Yes, that is correct. MS KHAMPEPE According to your knowledge, how many members of "The Mafia" did you know? MR JEKE I knew of 15 members but they were also joined by other members from other areas and we couldn't keep count of them. MS KHAMPEPE How long did it take you - as you said just before the elections the violence became rife, how long did it take you to mount efforts in order for you to banish them or beat them? Did it take you moths or years? MR JEKE It was quite a few years up to the period of the decision. CHAIRPERSON Are there no further questions? There's one aspect that, Mr Prior, you can perhaps save us time on if you can. It appears from the evidence that the position was completely out of control in this area, that also appears from Judge Nicholson's Judgment, do you accept that, that "The Mafia" had gone completely berserk and out of control and had made life unbearable for the ordinary members of the community? ADV PRIOR Mr Chairman, yes, that's certainly my understanding, having spoken to various persons in the area, that law and order had broken down to a very substantial extent. CHAIRPERSON No more questions. Yes, sorry, re-examination? RE-EXAMINATION BY MR SAMUEL Thank you, M'Lord, just one question. You spoke about people from other areas coming into this area and you spoke about the killing of the Development Committee people, can you tell us something that you mentioned to me in our consultation, about people coming from another area during 1993, just for the record and mention that area and what your suspicions were. MR JEKE These were the people who came from Wellbedash(?). When we saw them at first instance they were communicating or mixing with "The Mafia" group and they were committing the same deeds that were conducted by "The Mafia" group. MR SAMUEL What were your suspicions regarding who these people were? MR JEKE We suspected that they were also affiliated to "The Mafia" because they acted in the very same manner that "The Mafia" did. MR SAMUEL Thank you, M'Lord. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR SAMUEL CHAIRPERSON Does that conclude the evidence you are leading? MR SAMUEL That is correct, M'Lord. CHAIRPERSON Thank you. CHAIRPERSON Where are the applicants sitting? MR SAMUEL That is correct, M'Lord. CHAIRPERSON You can join the other applicants now, thank you. WITNESS EXCUSED