amntrans AMNESTY HEARING 1998-11-25 PALM RIDGE 3 XHOLILE MAKHAWULA AM 7697/97 https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=52999&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/amntrans/1998/9811231210_pr_981125th.htm CHAIRPERSON Who will be the next applicant? MR SIBEKO The next applicant is Mr Xholile Makhawula. CHAIRPERSON Sorry, can you just repeat that, Mr Sibeko, who is that? MR SIBEKO Mr Xholile Makhawula. CHAIRPERSON Mr Makhawula, can you just give us your full names? XHOLILE MAKHAWULA (sworn states) CHAIRPERSON Mr Sibeko? EXAMINATION BY MR SIBEKO Thank you, Mr Chairman. You also applied for amnesty for your activities in the SDU, in the Lusaka-A section, is that correct? MR MAKHAWULA Yes, this is true. MR SIBEKO The incidents that have been mentioned by the two previous applicants, were you also involved? MR MAKHAWULA Yes, I was also involved. MR SIBEKO Do you confirm everything that has been said, inasfar as it relates to you? MR MAKHAWULA Yes, I do confirm. MR SIBEKO Now let us get this clear. Your involvement in these incidents, were you also carrying a firearm or an AK47 and did you at any stage pull the trigger to shoot at anybody? MR MAKHAWULA Yes, I used to carry an AK47 as well. MR SIBEKO In all the incidents that they have mentioned, will you be in a position to state whether you personally injured or killed anybody? MR MAKHAWULA No, I do not remember because I was never close to these people that we were shooting at. MR SIBEKO But you agree that it's possible that as a result of your shooting there could be a number of them who might have died or who were injured? MR MAKHAWULA Yes, it's possible although I don't know. MR SIBEKO What happened to the weapon that you were using? MR MAKHAWULA There came a period where all the weapons were collected and were brought to the stadium, that is where mine was left. MR SIBEKO Is there any other incident besides these that you have already heard about that you'd want to tell us? MR MAKHAWULA No, there is none, I concur with what my colleagues have said. MR SIBEKO Thank you, Mr Chair. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR SIBEKO CHAIRPERSON Any questions, Advocate Steenkamp? ADV STEENKAMP No questions, thank you, Mr Chair. NO QUESTIONS BY ADV STEENKAMP ADV SANDI Mr Makhawula, Mpaula, Makhawula? MR MAKHAWULA Makhawula that is. ADV SANDI I notice that in a reply to a question when you completed the application form, a question requiring that you give dates as to when the acts and offences you're applying for were committed, you say 1993. You were not involved in anything before 1993? MR MAKHAWULA In 1993 I participated in all the incidents or activities that went on in the location but prior to that, no. ADV SANDI These incidents which have been mentioned by the previous witnesses, the first one being Mshayazafe, Mazibuko, Madala(?) incident and an attack at the hostel, were you involved in all those incidents? MR MAKHAWULA Yes, particularly the hostel one. ADV SANDI You were involved in all of them? MR MAKHAWULA No, the last one that Veli explained about with regard to the hostel, I'm not too sure if it's Kataza or Shayazafe hostel, but Veli dwelled on that fact. I not too sure about the name, whether it's Kataza, but it was the very last one and that is where I took part. ADV SANDI Can you specify the exact incidents or attacks in which you were involved? MR MAKHAWULA The hostel attack, I was there and the Ngaki attack, I was there as well. As for the hostel attack, I was there but I did not get inside. We were outside guarding upon the ones who went inside the premises of the hostel. ADV SANDI But you were also armed with a firearm, not so? MR MAKHAWULA Yes, I was armed with a firearm. ADV SANDI Were any people killed as far as you know, in that incident? Not people from your side. MR MAKHAWULA I did not notice that day but the following day I read from the newspaper that there were people who were killed. Since I was outside the premises I could not have known that much information. ADV SANDI Is there any other incident in which you did not take part? Can you recall any specific incident where you did not participate? MR MAKHAWULA Yes, there are others that I did not take part in. ADV SANDI Thank you, Mr Makhawula. Thank you, Chair. ADV GCABASHE I just want to double-check, the incident, the hostel incident that you talk about, that's the one where the journalist was killed outside? MR MAKHAWULA Yes, that's the one. ADV GCABASHE Thank you. CHAIRPERSON Mr Sibeko, any re-examination? MR SIBEKO None thanks, Mr Chairman. NO RE-EXAMINATION BY MR SIBEKO CHAIRPERSON Thank you, Mr Makhawula, you are excused. WITNESS EXCUSED