amntrans AMNESTY HEARING 1998-11-25 PALM RIDGE 3 MICHAEL FENI AM 7133/97 https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=53005&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/amntrans/1998/9811231210_pr_981125th.htm MR MOPEDI Mr Chairman, I would propose that the other matter which was stood down should be heard, and at the same time I will request to be excused. CHAIRPERSON Is that the matter of Feni? Mr Sibeko, will you deal with that one? MR SIBEKO Yes, Mr Chairman. CHAIRPERSON Alright. Will Mr Feni come up. ADV STEENKAMP Mr Chairman, his application appears on page 113 in the same bundle. CHAIRPERSON Are your full names Michael Feni? MICHAEL FENI (sworn states) CHAIRPERSON Mr Sibeko? EXAMINATION BY MR SIBEKO Thank you, Mr Chairman. Mr Feni, do you confirm that you are applying for amnesty in this matter, is that correct? MR FENI That is correct. MR SIBEKO Do you confirm that you apply for amnesty because of your role in the SDU at Lusaka-A? MR FENI That is correct. MR SIBEKO When did you join the unit? MR FENI In 1993. MR SIBEKO Who was your commander at the time? MR FENI It was Mosa. MR SIBEKO Do you have specific incidences wherein you were involved as a member of the SDU under Mosa's command? MR FENI Yes. MR SIBEKO Would you tell us about them? MR FENI Yes, I can tell you. The first one was in Ngaki when people were taken out of their houses. Some of them were killed. I then decided to take part in this because our people were being killed and their houses were being taken away from them. That is why I decided to be involved. MR SIBEKO Those people who were killed and moved out of their houses, who were killing them and who was busy killing them? MR FENI They were killed by the IFP. MR SIBEKO How do you know that they were killed by IFP members? MR FENI Because they had red bands to show that they were members of the IFP. MR SIBEKO Now you indicated that as a result of those attacks or the two incidents that you have just referred to, you decided to join the unit, were you at any stage or did you at any stage carry any weapon whatsoever to that effect? MR FENI Yes, I did carry a weapon, an AK47. MR SIBEKO Now let us start again from the incident that occurred at - the very same incident that you are talking about, what happened after you found out that people were killed and they were moved out of their houses, what did you do? MR FENI What happened is we were forced to attack them because they were killing people. MR SIBEKO Now will I be understanding you correctly that you also fired shots towards the same people that you are referring to? MR FENI Can you please repeat your question. MR SIBEKO You say the IFP members killed people at Ngaki, moved people of Ngaki out of their homes. Now you joined the unit, as part of the unit did you fire any shots towards members of the IFP, the said members of the IFP? MR FENI Yes, we shot at them. MR SIBEKO Mr Feni, the question is, did you, not you in a large number of people but you yourself personally. MR FENI Yes, I shot. MR SIBEKO Are you in a position to say whether you killed or injured anybody out of that attack? MR FENI Yes, there were people who died. MR SIBEKO How do you know that, Sir? MR FENI It is because I was not shooting, I was not facing on the ground, I was facing at the people. MR SIBEKO Is there any other incident that you would want to tell us about, except the one that you have referred to? MR FENI Yes, the incident at Buthelezi when there was a helicopter flying in that area, the Stability Unit. They were burning people's houses in Buthelezi. They were burning houses and that was a very painful thing. In that incident I also used that AK47. MR SIBEKO Now you say - in fact, in what you're saying you don't mention who those people who were accompanied sort of by the ISU as you say, who were those people who were busy burning people's houses and, who were those people? MR FENI The people who were burning people's houses had red bands. They were members of the IFP. MR SIBEKO The very same question again, are you in a position to state whether you killed or injured anybody in that attack? MR FENI There is no doubt that I might have killed a person, I did kill on that particular day. MR SIBEKO What eventually happened to the weapon that you were using, that is the AK47? MR FENI The AK47 was taken by the Stability Unit, by the police. They arrested my wife, they took my wife with them. MR SIBEKO At that time were you aware that - in fact, was it before the campaign wherein people were supposed to hand their weapons over to whoever, who organised that campaign? MR FENI It was before that campaign. MR SIBEKO Thank you, Mr Chairman, no further questions. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MOPEDI CHAIRPERSON Advocate Steenkamp? ADV STEENKAMP Thank you, Mr Chairman, I have no questions. Thank you, Sir. NO QUESTIONS BY ADV STEENKAMP CHAIRPERSON Mr Feni, in these two incidents that you've referred to at Mgaki and at Buthelezi, these attackers were burning houses. Now what did you do there, did you shoot at those people that were burning the houses, with our AK47? MR FENI We shot at the people who were burning the houses. CHAIRPERSON Were these the only two incidents that you were involved in? MR FENI Those are the two that I still remember. ADV SANDI Sorry, Chair. What does that mean, Mr Feni, does this mean to say that those were the only incidents that you were involved in or is it to say that there may be other incidents in which you were involved but you cannot remember them? MR FENI I don't remember other incidents. It doesn't mean that these are the only two. CHAIRPERSON Now when about did these two take place? MR FENI If I'm not mistaken it was in 1993 and in 1994. CHAIRPERSON This Buthelezi, the one where the helicopter was involved, which one was that, '93 or '94? MR FENI I am not sure. I do not remember when exactly it happened. CHAIRPERSON Are you not sure whether it was in 1993 or in 1994? MR FENI I'm not sure. CHAIRPERSON So both these incidents that you refer to were in the 1993/1994 period, you're not sure? MR FENI Yes, that is correct, I'm not sure about the dates. I was also arrested so I couldn't keep on the dates and the years. I was arrested concerning the AK47. CHAIRPERSON In which year were you arrested? MR FENI 1994, maybe in February. CHAIRPERSON And what happened to that case? MR FENI The Stability Unit members did not attend the Court and I was then released after six months. CHAIRPERSON So they withdrew the charges against you? MR FENI Yes, they withdrew them. CHAIRPERSON So are you also asking for amnesty for having had this AK47 unlawfully in your possession? MR FENI Yes, that is correct. CHAIRPERSON This AK47, have you only used it in connection with your activities as a member of the SDU? MR FENI I was using it only as a member of the SDU. CHAIRPERSON You have - or let me ask you, have you ever been involved in the Committee of Seven? MR FENI Yes, I do know about the Committee of Seven. CHAIRPERSON Were you involved in any of their activities? MR FENI I was always with them all the time. CHAIRPERSON Did you help them to do anything like collect money or anything like that? MR FENI I don't remember collecting money. CHAIRPERSON Did you help them with anything in particular? MR FENI I don't remember clearly except that we would meet in the meetings of the Committee of Seven as a person who was unemployed. CHAIRPERSON Would you just be attending the meetings as a member of the community? MR FENI That is correct. CHAIRPERSON And otherwise you spent a lot of time with some of the members of the committee? MR FENI That is correct. CHAIRPERSON Thank you. Mr Sibeko? RE-EXAMINATION BY MR SIBEKO Only one aspect, Mr Chairman. Mr Feni, were you an elected member of the Committee of Seven? MR FENI I was not an elected member but I had to attend their meetings and to guard them if they were attacked by the IFP, so that I could take part at that time. MR SIBEKO ...(inaudible) CHAIRPERSON Thank you. Thank you, Mr Feni, you are excused. WITNESS EXCUSED CHAIRPERSON What is next? ADV STEENKAMP Mr Chairman, with your permission, that will be the roll for the day. There will be more applicants tomorrow, but my learned colleagues have informed me that they need to not only consult but also need to do some preparation for tomorrow. And with your permission, Mr Chairman, this will be the roll for today. Thank you, Sir. CHAIRPERSON Thank you. Well I think we have covered quite a bit of ground. We are going to adjourn the proceedings at this stage, until tomorrow morning at 9 o'clock. We will reconvene at nine. We are adjourned. COMMITTEE ADJOURNS