amntrans AMNESTY HEARING 1999-01-27 PRETORIA 3 JOHANNES TSHIPANE MALEKA AM7452/97 BOMBINGS https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=53135&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/amntrans/1999/99012529_pre_990127pt.htm ON RESUMPTION CHAIRPERSON Mr Mohlaba? MR MOHLABA May I then be excused for a while, Mr Molefe will take the stand and lead certain applicants? CHAIRPERSON Thank you, Mr Molefe? MR MOLEFE Mr Chairman, I think we will lead Mr Johannes Maleka first, he is the 10th applicant. CHAIRPERSON 9th? ADV DE JAGER He is applying for amnesty in connection with which incidents? MR MOLEFE He is applying for amnesty in connection with the murder of the three policemen at Mariana Street, for the 8th of April bombing at the municipality at Atteridgeville and also for the 5th June bombing of the Saulsville station. JOHANNES TSHIPANE MALEKA (sworn states) CHAIRPERSON Thank you Mr Molefe. MR MOLEFE Mr Chairman, Mr Maleka will be using the Interpreter, he will be giving his evidence in Sesotho. There is one amendment that we would just like to make to his application. I think I should have also mentioned this. We would also like to make an application for amnesty in respect of escaping from custody from Modderbee prison, but we will address the Commission properly at the end or when argument is supposed to be heard. ADV SANDI Sorry Mr Molefe, I see that at page 59 it refers to malicious damage to property? CHAIRPERSON Yes, it at the station. EXAMINATION BY MR MOLEFE Can I start Mr Chairman? Mr Maleka, I take it that you were staying at Atteridgeville during the occurrence of these events, and that you were recruited into the ANC and into Umkhonto weSizwe? MR MALEKA Yes. INTERPRETER I think the applicant is on the wrong channel. The Interpreter is on the wrong channel. MR MOLEFE Could you just briefly tell us who recruited you into Umkhonto weSizwe and what training did you receive? INTERPRETER The Interpreter is on the wrong channel. CHAIRPERSON Do you have a problem with the interpretation? I think that is on the wrong channel, it is on channel 3. MR MOLEFE Maybe I should just repeat the question, can you just briefly tell us when were you recruited into MK, into Umkhonto weSizwe and what training did you receive? MR MALEKA In 1988 I met Mensday. I met with him together with Mr Ramadite. We discussed about joining Umkhonto weSizwe and after that we agreed that we should join. After that Mensday informed me about the appointment when to start the military training. On that day of the appointment, I was taken for training in Mamelodi. That training included the use of explosives. MR MOLEFE Right, Mr Maleka, you have applied for amnesty in respect of the murder of the three policemen at 3 Mariana Street on the 18th of March. Can you just briefly explain as to why are you applying for amnesty in respect of this offence? MR MALEKA It happened before I joined MK. After I joined this Unit, I knew, I was informed by members of this Unit that what happened in Atteridgeville, they were involved. That is why I am coming here to tell the Commission about this incident. MR MOLEFE So if I understand you correctly, or maybe let me rather put it in this manner, did you in any way whatsoever take part in this operation? MR MALEKA No, I did not play a role. MR MOLEFE So the only reason you are applying for amnesty in respect of this incident, is because there was an omission on your part, in that you did not divulge this information to the relevant authorities? MR MALEKA Yes, I did not divulge this information to the agents of the State. MR MOLEFE Right. You also applied for amnesty for the blast which took place at the Atteridgeville municipality council on the 8th of April? MR MALEKA Yes, that is correct. MR MOLEFE Can you just briefly explain to us what your role was? MR MALEKA On the day when I received training from Mensday about the use of explosives, we agreed that I should take an explosive and put it at the municipal offices in Atteridgeville. MR MOLEFE Can you just briefly give us the political motive for placing this bomb at the municipality offices? MR MALEKA At that time, the office was under the government and that government was not elected by the people who were the residents of that particular area. There were rent boycotts. During those rent boycotts, many people were killed, those who were marching to that particular municipality office to discuss about the rent issue. So people were not satisfied about what happened and I include myself amongst those people who were not satisfied. When the decision was taken that that office should be bombed, I agreed with the people. MR MOLEFE Now were you alone or were you in the company of somebody else when you went to place this limpet mine at the municipality? MR MALEKA I was alone. MR MOLEFE All right, you also apply for amnesty ... CHAIRPERSON Sorry Mr Molefe, before you continue. Did the mine go off? MR MALEKA Yes, it went off. CHAIRPERSON Did it cause any damage or did it injure any people or kill any people? MR MALEKA Only the building was destroyed. According to my knowledge or my observation, nobody was injured or killed in that incident. CHAIRPERSON When you say the building was destroyed, was the whole building destroyed, flattened or was portion of it damaged? MR MALEKA Because it was within other offices, when you are outside, you would not see what happened inside. What I know is that there was damage in that building. CHAIRPERSON And at what time did you set the limpet mine to blast off, what time of the day or night? MR MALEKA It was around half past four. CHAIRPERSON In the morning or the afternoon? MR MALEKA It was in the afternoon. CHAIRPERSON Why did you set it to go off at that time? MR MALEKA I knew that the employees within that office, they did not know anything about the oppressive laws, they were just ordinary workers, so those people were not targeted, so I wanted the bomb to explode after work. CHAIRPERSON What sort of mine was it? MR MALEKA It was a super limpet mine. CHAIRPERSON Thank you Mr Molefe. MR MOLEFE You also apply for amnesty in respect of an explosion which took place at the Saulsville train station, is that correct? That happened on the 5th of June? MR MALEKA Yes, that is correct. MR MOLEFE Can you just briefly explain to us as to what your role was in that particular explosion? MR MALEKA We discussed about this operation. It was myself and Ernest and George Mathe. We took a decision that we should continue with this operation. After some days, we decided that we should carry it out. We left to the station, it was on a Sunday when the trains were not that busy. We observed a train which was on the middle line which we discovered that it was not going to take off on that particular day. Then we planted the bomb in that train. We used a mini limpet mine. MR MOLEFE Was this event coinciding with any other event? MR MALEKA On the Monday there was supposed to be a stay away, subsequent to the Sunday. I don't know what was the stay away for and people were ready to heed that call for a stay away. MR MOLEFE Is there anything that you would like to add in respect of these two bombings? Is there any other thing that you would still like to say in respect of the bombing at the municipality as well as at the Saulsville train station? MR MALEKA No, I have nothing to add. MR MOLEFE Was there anybody injured at the Saulsville train station bombing? MR MALEKA Nobody was injured in that operation. MR MOLEFE Was there property which was damaged? MR MALEKA Yes. The train was damaged. MR MOLEFE You have also applied, or you are also requesting to apply for amnesty in respect of escaping from the Modderbee prison and eventually leaving the country unlawfully, is that correct? MR MALEKA Yes, that is correct. MR MOLEFE Was there anybody injured when you left or escaped from Modderbee prison? MR MALEKA Nobody was injured during our escape. I don't know thereafter. MR MOLEFE Was there any property damaged at Modderbee when you escaped from the prison? MR MALEKA We did not destroy or damage any property. We did not damage any property. MR MOLEFE That is all Mr Chairman. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MOLEFE CHAIRPERSON Thank you Mr Molefe. ADV DE JAGER Could I just, Mr Molefe, in his application he is referring us to CC349/89. Is that the trial record? MR MOLEFE That is the trial record. ADV DE JAGER And that is also in this bundle? MR MOLEFE The charge sheet is in the bundle, that is the charge sheet or the trial record, as well as a judgement. ADV DE JAGER The judgement for those people, number 2, 7 and 8 who attended the hearing? MR MOLEFE That is correct. ADV DE JAGER Thank you. MR MOLEFE The reason why he is referring to that case is just for easy reference, so that we should know that it is in respect of some offences which form part and parcel of that case. ADV DE JAGER Yes, it may even help him for the amendment of the escape? MR MOLEFE That is correct. CHAIRPERSON Thank you Mr Molefe. Mr Mohlaba, do you have any questions to ask this witness? Just for the record, Mr Mohlaba indicates that he has no questions. NO CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR MOHLABA CHAIRPERSON Mr Mokone, any questions? MR MOKONE No questions. NO CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR MOKONE CHAIRPERSON Ms Monyane? MS MONYANE No questions Chairperson. NO CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS MONYANE CHAIRPERSON Mr Dreyer? MR DREYER No questions Mr Chairman. NO CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR DREYER CHAIRPERSON Mr Joubert? MR JOUBERT No questions Mr Chairman. NO CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR JOUBERT CHAIRPERSON Ms Mtanga? MS MTANGA No questions Mr Chairperson. NO CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS MTANGA CHAIRPERSON Therefore I take it you have no re-examination Mr Molefe. NO RE-EXAMINATION BY MR MOLEFE CHAIRPERSON Any questions Adv De Jager? ADV DE JAGER Nothing. CHAIRPERSON Adv Sandi? ADV DE JAGER The only thing that you could perhaps clear up is, he referred to we. We planted this, we did that. Was anybody assisting you in doing it or were you doing it on your own? CHAIRPERSON This is the Saulsville station? MR MALEKA I was with Ernest Ramadite. CHAIRPERSON Thank you Mr Maleka, that concludes your testimony, you may stand down. WITNESS EXCUSED