amntrans AMNESTY HEARINGS 1999-04-09 PRETORIA 4 P J VERSTER AM5471/97 PIET NTULI MATTER https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=53253&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/amntrans/1999/99040622_pre_990409pt.htm MS LOCKHAT We call on Mr P.J. Verster. MR WESSELS Mr Chairperson, the application of Mr Verster, appears on page 11 of Bundle 7. His involvement is again very peripheral as in the previous cases, or even more so and I will lead his evidence very quickly. CHAIRPERSON Yes. PIETER JOHANNES VERSTER (sworn states) EXAMINATION BY MR WESSELS Mr Verster, at this stage we have heard that you were the Senior Staff Officer of Special Forces, is that correct? MR VERSTER That is correct Mr Chairperson. MR WESSELS Evidence was also led that Captain Hechter received the bomb from you with which Mr Piet Ntuli was blown up? MR VERSTER That is not so Chairperson. MR WESSELS And that you were involved with this operation? MR VERSTER My involvement with this operation was administrative and co-ordination, as Senior Staff Officer as I received it from Gen Joubert. MR WESSELS Is it then so that you would have received the instruction to make a bomb available to a person from Special Forces? MR VERSTER No, I had contact with Captain Hechter, if I recall correctly, but my function as Staff Officer was that I sent many bombs by aeroplane to the operational area, so I will accept that it might be so. MR WESSELS Do you have any independent recollection of this bomb and the making available thereof? MR VERSTER I can recall that there was such a bomb and as the previous applicant had given evidence. MR WESSELS Did you know what the bomb was to be used for? MR VERSTER I knew it would go to the Police, but the specific target was not known to us. MR WESSELS I have no further questions. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR WESSELS CHAIRPERSON Did you in fact assemble the bomb? MR VERSTER No Mr Chairperson. We used the normal system at Special Forces and this was the Technical Division, the Logistics Division of the structure. Therefore I just conveyed the instructions as received from Gen Joubert and referred them administratively to those divisions. CHAIRPERSON So you had no hand in the, no part in the actual handling of the actual explosive? MR VERSTER No Mr Chairperson. CHAIRPERSON What are you applying for? MR WESSELS Mr Chairman, may I come in there, Mr Verster is applying for amnesty in that he may be an accomplice in regard to this incident. CHAIRPERSON Is there anybody who wishes to put questions to this applicant? ADV DE JAGER Mr Verster, if you had to be an accomplice, you had to know that somebody was to be killed? MR VERSTER Chairperson I accepted that a bomb was to be manufactured, and I knew that eventually if it went to the Police, it would be used for some or other target, which they knew better than I and whether it was suited. ADV DE JAGER Therefore you knew that it would be used on an unidentified person to injure or kill an unidentified person? MR VERSTER That is correct Mr Chairperson. CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR DU PLESSIS Mr Chairman, may I be afforded one question please. CHAIRPERSON Yes. MR DU PLESSIS Mr Verster, will I be correct with the following statement, and that is that the contact that Captain Hechter had with Special Forces, was through you? MR VERSTER That is not necessarily so Chairperson. This type of thing was handled exclusively and it may be that Captain Hechter or any outside person that used Special Forces directly, liaised with the Commanding General, but thereafter it would come to me, who did the administration or co-ordination of any work to be done. But we contacted each other telephonically and thereafter, there was direct contact from them to me. MR DU PLESSIS But can I ask you, do you know whether Captain Hechter had contact with anybody else at Special Forces with regard to any other operation, including this operation except for the contact which he had with Gen Joubert of which we heard now? MR VERSTER I just know of those aspects for which we have applied for, or what has happened the last few days and Mr Floyd in this instance and Gen Joubert. ADV DE JAGER Wasn't there evidence that he had contact with Mr Naude? MR VERSTER Excuse me, I had to correct that, that is what I mean. MR DU PLESSIS Thank you Mr Chairman, I have no further questions. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR DU PLESSIS CHAIRPERSON Thank you. No questions? Ms Lockhat, do you have any questions? MS LOCKHAT No questions, Chairperson. NO CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS LOCKHAT CHAIRPERSON Yes, very well. Thank you, you are excused. MR VERSTER Thank you Mr Chairperson. WITNESS EXCUSED