amntrans AMNESTY HEARING 1999-05-17 PIETERMARITZBURG 1 PRINCE KHONI KHWELA AM3680/96 MURDER OF IFP RESIDENTS OF EMPUSHENI https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=53398&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/amntrans/1999/99051721_pmb_990517pm.htm CHAIRPERSON Are we ready to begin? MS MTANGA Yes we are Chairperson. MS WILLIAMS Mr Chairperson, I appear on behalf of MS LOONAT Mr Chairperson, I appear on behalf of the Applicant. My name is Zarina Loonat and I am an attorney. Thank you. CHAIRPERSON Are you calling the Applicant? PRINCE KHONI KHWELA (sworn states) EXAMINATION BY MS LOONAT: Please tell the Committee what is your full name and your fixed address. MR KHWELA My name is Prince Khoni Khwela. MS LOONAT What is your present address, your fixed address? MR KHWELA I am from Umlazi Township P O Ndobozweni 4105 MS LOONAT How long have you lived there Mr Khwela? MR KHWELA Very short. CHAIRPERSON How long was that before the commission of this offence? MR KHWELA As from 1991 up until 1992. CHAIRPERSON Yes. MS LOONAT Please tell us, where did you live prior to this? MR KHWELA ...(indistinct) MS LOONAT And why did you have to move? Please explain to the Committee why you had to move. MR KHWELA The violence which was there. MS LOONAT Mr Khwela, please be more specific. What violence are you talking about and where did it exist? MR KHWELA There was violence at Empusheni and people from there came to Efoluweni to spread the violence. MS LOONAT Who are these people that you are referring to? MR KHWELA There was violence between ANC and IFP. MS LOONAT Are you an ANC member Mr Khwela? MR KHWELA I was an ANC supporter. MS LOONAT MR KHWELA MS LOONAT Mr Khwela, how old are you now? MR KHWELA 29 years. MS LOONAT Please tell the Committee, what is your present level of education? MR KHWELA I am doing Standard 9 right now in prison. MS LOONAT Before you were in prison, your level of education was up to Standard 6, is that correct? MR KHWELA MS LOONAT How old were you then? MR KHWELA I think I was 19 years. MS LOONAT How did you come to join the ranks of the ANC? MR KHWELA There was a certain guy at Umlazi who recruited me. His name was Mandla Gwele. MS LOONAT Please tell us what he actually told you, how did he actually recruit you? MR KHWELA He invited me to a certain meeting which was held at Sidwenga. MS LOONAT Can you remember in what year this was? MR KHWELA In 1992. MS LOONAT At that time, how fully-fledged a member were you of the ANC? CHAIRPERSON MR KHWELA Yes I was just a supporter, not a full-fledged member. MS LOONAT Mr Khwela please explain to the Committee if you have become a registered member of the ANC and when did that take place? MR KHWELA In 1993 I registered for ANC in Sikingwo. MS LOONAT Have you brought any proof of your registration as a member? MR KHWELA MS LOONAT What is your present political philosophy Mr Khwela? Do you still belong to the ANC? MR KHWELA I am still a supporter and a member of ANC. MS LOONAT In spite of being in prison for so many years, you still are an ANC supporter? MR KHWELA MS LOONAT Mr Khwela you say that you had to move addresses because the IFP party was attacking the areas in which you lived with your family? Please can you expand on what actually happened when you were attacked by the IFP members. MR KHWELA People who were not residents of Mapusheni used to come and shoot at people or residents Empusheni. MS MTANGA CHAIRPERSON According to my understanding of the interpreters I have been given the name Efoluweni and now I hear that there was another place called Empusheni and he has now mentioned a third name. Is that correct? He previously lived in Efoluweni. MR KHWELA CHAIRPERSON Yes. Carry on. MR KHWELA MS LOONAT Mr Khwela what did you do when you were being attacked by the IFP members? Did you fight back or did you hide, what did you do? MR KHWELA MS LOONAT What area was this? MR KHWELA At Efoluweni. MS LOONAT So this explains why you moved from Efoluweni to Umlazi, is that correct? MR KHWELA What made me move from Efoluweni is another incident, second one, where a certain guy was killed who was also a resident of Efoluweni. His name is Mkhize. MS LOONAT Please tell us what happened on that occasion. MR KHWELA ADV BOSMAN Can I just come in here, what sort of a meeting was this, who called the meeting? MR KHWELA It was sort of a reconciliation. Mkhize told people to come to this meeting so that they could talk and try to resolve matters or conflicts between themselves. ADV BOSMAN But who were these people? Was it ANC and IFP people? Can you just explain that? MR KHWELA It was everyone, ANC, IFP and people who were not affiliated with any organisation. It was a meeting for reconciliation or for peace. MS LOONAT How do you know that it was IFP members who attacked you at that meeting? MR KHWELA At Empusheni the predominant party was IFP, so they were from Empusheni. MS LOONAT How many times have you participated in attacks on the IFP in return? MR KHWELA Only one. MS LOONAT Was this in the company of others or were you alone? MR KHWELA I was with others. MS LOONAT Why did you attack the IFP? Please explain in your own words. MR KHWELA They were the people who used to attack the Efoluweni residents. MS LOONAT So you are in fact saying that your attacks were to avenge the death of your friend and your family? Is that correct? MR KHWELA ADV BOSMAN They were therefore politically motivated at all times? MS LOONAT Mr Khwela. MR KHWELA Yes. MS LOONAT Mr Khwela, a little bit more on your background. Are your family members, members of the same party as yourself? MR KHWELA They are ANC supporters. MS LOONAT How did you decide that you wanted to join the ANC party? CHAIRPERSON Does it matter how he decided because he has already said that he was a member? MS LOONAT Mr Chairman, the point I was trying to make is that he was influenced from a very young age to become an ANC member, it was not just something that he undertook when he was much older and unemployed. It was from the days when he was at school, because of his family background. I think that.... CHAIRPERSON MS LOONAT Mr Khwela have you ever owned a firearm in your life? MR KHWELA No. MS LOONAT Do you know how to use a firearm? MR KHWELA No. MS LOONAT MR KHWELA No. MS LOONAT So this attack on the IFP is your first offence, is that correct? MR KHWELA Yes it was the very first. MS LOONAT Mr Khwela, please tell the Committee Members what happened on the 18th August 1992, the day when a massacre had taken place in which you were involved. MR KHWELA On the 18th August we left Umlazi, the three of us. It was myself, Mbhasobhi and Ngcgcina. CHAIRPERSON MR KHWELA Mzw. CHAIRPERSON MR KHWELA CHAIRPERSON Yes now you can tell us where the three of you went. MR KHWELA We went to Sidweni. CHAIRPERSON Carry on. MR KHWELA We arrived at a certain house where there were supporters of ANC. It looked like they were waiting for us and they were ready to go and attack. CHAIRPERSON Did you know that you were going to this house to go and join people in an attack? MR KHWELA Yes, I was told so the previous day. Mzwamandla Cele told me. When we arrived there, we realised that these people were ready to go and attack. Myself, Kolane, Ngcgcina Cele, we went together with the group. CHAIRPERSON Yes, carry on. MR KHWELA CHAIRPERSON When they went to fetch the car, where were you? MR KHWELA I was left in that house, the same house I said there were ANC people. CHAIRPERSON So when they arrived with the car, what happened? MR KHWELA People who were going to launch the attack, were chosen there. A certain guy by the name of Baba Mashelela Khwela chose the people and there were fifteen. CHAIRPERSON Baba, what were his other names? MR KHWELA Mashelela. CHAIRPERSON What was his other names? MR KHWELA Khwela. CHAIRPERSON Yes so what did Baba Mashelela Khwela, what did he decide, or what did he do? MR KHWELA He is the one who chose those who were supposed to go and launch the attack. CHAIRPERSON Did he choose the people who were going to attack or did he choose and point out the target of your attack? MR KHWELA He chose the people who were supposed to go and launch the attack. CHAIRPERSON Yes, carry on. MR KHWELA Among the fifteen who were chosen by Baba was Bong Nkosi and Ngcgcina Cele. CHAIRPERSON Carry on. MR KHWELA Maseven Khuzwayo. CHAIRPERSON MR KHWELA Okay. Myself, I was also one of the fifteen. CHAIRPERSON Do you know the names of the others? MR KHWELA There are many which I do not remember because, one of the reasons is that some of them, I met them for the first time there. CHAIRPERSON And you do not know their names? MR KHWELA Yes. CHAIRPERSON Yes, carry on. MS LOONAT Mr Khwela, if you do not remember the names of the other occupants, would you be able to identify them if they were shown to you? MR KHWELA Yes, I think I can remember them if I can see them. MS LOONAT You must remember that you have been in prison for seven years since this attack. You still say you can assist if necessary, is that correct? MR KHWELA MS LOONAT Mr Khwela please tell the Committee Members what happened once the fifteen of you were chosen. MR KHWELA CHAIRPERSON You start talking about your gun, what were you firing at or who were you firing at? MR KHWELA We started shooting at Chibini and the people who were residents of Chibini were shooting as well. CHAIRPERSON Is this an attack to people in an area, or is this an attack at a particular residence, people who had been identified as the targets beforehand, or was this just random? What is the position, can you tell me? MS LOONAT CHAIRPERSON MS LOONAT Yes, Mr Chairman, I should. Mr Khwela, when you were chosen, the fifteen of you were chosen, and you got into the kombi, what were your instructions and who gave you those instructions? MR KHWELA Baba Mashilela Khwela is the one who gave us the instructions, he told us to go and attack Empusheni. MS LOONAT Was Baba Khwela in the kombi as well? MR KHWELA MS LOONAT Who is Baba Khwela? CHAIRPERSON MS LOONAT Mr Chairman, I just wanted to establish that he was an ANC very senior person who gave the instructions. CHAIRPERSON MS LOONAT Mr Khwela, when you were given the instructions to go and attack, please explain to the Committee Members why ...(intervention) CHAIRPERSON Who? MS LOONAT Why were you ...(intervention) CHAIRPERSON No, who were you going to attack? MR KHWELA We were told to go and attack Mr A1 Khuzwayo. MS LOONAT And who was Mr A1 Khuzwayo to you? MR KHWELA He was a Mayor at Empusheni. MS LOONAT I take it he was an IFP supporter, is that correct? MR KHWELA MS LOONAT Your instructions were to go and attack Mr Khuzwayo himself. Please explain to the Committee, what else were you told, what area was he living in and who was living with him at the time. MR KHWELA MS LOONAT Why were you attacking the area? MR KHWELA MS LOONAT I understand that, but who were you shooting at when you started shooting? MR KHWELA CHAIRPERSON Stop there please, just stop there. Your friends started shooting the people in the area. How many of your friends had firearms? MR KHWELA All of us, we had firearms. CHAIRPERSON Who supplied the firearms? MR KHWELA When we arrived in that house we found that the people, or the group of people we found there, had guns. CHAIRPERSON Do you know the name of the person that handed out the firearms? MR KHWELA When we arrived there the group had already guns in their possession, so when we arrived we were given guns by Mashelela, but the other group which we found there, they had already had guns. CHAIRPERSON The gun that you had, was that given to you by the man Mashelela? MR KHWELA Yes. CHAIRPERSON And your companions, the guns they had, the same person, Mashelela? MR KHWELA Yes. CHAIRPERSON And who told you where the house of Mr Khuzwayo was going to be? MR KHWELA CHAIRPERSON Did you personally know as well? MR KHWELA Yes, I knew his house. CHAIRPERSON MR KHWELA MS LOONAT What did you actually do, Mr Khwela, at the time? MR KHWELA I went back to the place where we came from. MS LOONAT Mr Khwela, the question is, when you were there you had a firearm in your hand, did you use it? MR KHWELA Yes I used it. Only once. MS LOONAT What did you shoot with it? MR KHWELA I shot and I am not sure whether I shot someone or the person I shot at died or not. ADV BOSMAN May I just come in here please, Ms Loonat. Mr Khwela, where were the people you were shooting at, were they in the street, where they in a house, were you in this kombi or had you gotten out of the kombi? Can you explain that please? MR KHWELA We already alighted the kombi. We were shooting at people who were running away. ADV BOSMAN Where were they running from? Were they at a shop? Were they at their house? Were they just walking in the street? Can you explain that please? MR KHWELA ADV BOSMAN Thank you. MS LOONAT Were you instructed to start shooting at the people as soon as you alighted from the kombi, is that correct? MR KHWELA MS LOONAT MR KHWELA MS LOONAT MR KHWELA MS LOONAT Mr Khuzwayo was an IFP warlord, is that correct? MR KHWELA Yes. MS LOONAT How exactly did he affect your life that you felt you had to attack him in this manner? MR KHWELA The area where I was staying was his most target area. MS LOONAT Mr Khwela, please expand, what do you mean this was his most target area? What did he actually do? MR KHWELA It is the area which he used to attack a lot. MS LOONAT Please explain to the Committee, how did he attack this area? With guns? How? MR KHWELA MS LOONAT How does it implicate Mr Khuzwayo? MR KHWELA MS LOONAT Mr Khwela, when you started firing and you shot the first shot with your homemade firearm, what happened thereafter? MR KHWELA MS LOONAT MR KHWELA MS LOONAT Mr Khwela, you then panicked and you ran away. Is that correct? MR KHWELA MS LOONAT Why did you panic? This was something that you had planned to do, was to attack and kill people that day. Why did you not carry on? Why did you panic? MR KHWELA MS LOONAT Is there anything else you want to say about that? CHAIRPERSON Yes, perhaps you can clear up where did he go to when he left. MR KHWELA I went back to the house where we left earlier. MS LOONAT What happened when you got there? MR KHWELA I stayed in that house until the next day and I went back home the following day. ADV BOSMAN Where was Baba at the time when you got there, do you know? MR KHWELA CHAIRPERSON What time of the day was this attack launched by you and your friends? MR KHWELA It was during the day. CHAIRPERSON Yes. MR KHWELA It is difficult for me to remember the time but it was during the day. CHAIRPERSON Was it morning, noon, afternoon, evening? MR KHWELA I can only say it was afternoon. MS LOONAT What is the distance from the place of the attack, to the place where you ran from the attack? MR KHWELA ADV SANDI Mr Khwela, did you give a report to this Baba Khwela, did you give a report to him? MR KHWELA ADV SANDI Yes, but was any report given to Baba about what had happened? He had given instruction to go and carry out an attack. MR KHWELA I told him how I went. When he arrived I told him about the attack, as to what happened. ADV SANDI What did he say? MR KHWELA MS LOONAT What was his reaction to that? MR KHWELA He said he will wait for the others to come and give him the full report. MS LOONAT Was he not annoyed that you had run away from the attack? MR KHWELA CHAIRPERSON Were you present when the others arrived, or returned? MR KHWELA Yes, when they arrived I was still there. CHAIRPERSON When they made their report to Baba, were you present when they made their report to Baba? MR KHWELA Yes, I was present. CHAIRPERSON When did you hear for the first time that people were killed? MR KHWELA The group told us. CHAIRPERSON Was it mentioned at that stage as to how many people were shot, how many killed or injured? MR KHWELA CHAIRPERSON Did they die? MR KHWELA Yes, they died. CHAIRPERSON Were they known to you? MR KHWELA I only knew Kolane Ngcgcina Cele. The other one ...(intervention) CHAIRPERSON Is that the person whose name you gave us earlier, Ngcgcina Cele? MR KHWELA Yes. CHAIRPERSON And who was the other that died? MR KHWELA Bong Nkosi Khwela. CHAIRPERSON And do you know how many people died as a result of the attack by this group? MR KHWELA I came to find out how many people were killed when I was arrested. CHAIRPERSON The names of all the people that were murdered were given, there were 9 of them, did you know any of them? MR KHWELA CHAIRPERSON MR KHWELA CHAIRPERSON What happened to Mr A1 Khuzwayo? MR KHWELA He is still alive. CHAIRPERSON Were you the only person that was arrested in connection with this event? MR KHWELA We were arrested, the three of us. It was myself, Mzwamandla Cele and Mbhasobhi Mkhize. CHAIRPERSON Yes, you three were arrested. MR KHWELA Yes. Mzwamandla Cele was released from the Police Station, or maybe even bail or something. CHAIRPERSON Were you the only one that was tried? MR KHWELA Yes, I was the only one. CHAIRPERSON MS LOONAT CHAIRPERSON ...(indistinct) and whose participation in this entire event was minimal, lands up in Court and is sentenced and the others are not even charged. ADV BOSMAN Ms Loonat, perhaps you can just inquire from your client how it came about that he was arrested, if he would give some evidence in that regard. MS LOONAT ADV BOSMAN No, he said that three of them were arrested, so what we want to know is when were they arrested, were they all arrested the same time and what led to their arrest. MS LOONAT Mr Khwela, do you understand the question? MR KHWELA If you could please repeat the question. CHAIRPERSON When were you arrested? MR KHWELA CHAIRPERSON Where were you arrested? MR KHWELA At Umlazi. CHAIRPERSON When was Cele arrested? MR KHWELA The fetched him from his work at night. CHAIRPERSON When? Before or after your arrest? MR KHWELA Myself and Mbhasobhi were arrested first and then Mzwamandla was taken from his work while he was working at night. CHAIRPERSON How long after you were arrested? MR KHWELA After a day we were arrested. On the same day, on the very same day we were arrested he was also taken from his work. CHAIRPERSON And what happened to the firearms that everybody had? MR KHWELA CHAIRPERSON COMMITTEE ADJOURNS ON RESUMPTION PRINCE KHONI KHWELA (s.u.o.) EXAMINATION BY MS LOONAT (cont) Mr Khwela please can you expand the part of when you were actually in the kombi and you started firing randomly at people. Who were you firing at and why? MR KHWELA We started firing because we were at the IFP area. MS LOONAT Carry on please. MR KHWELA MS LOONAT When you started shooting, what was in your mind, who were you shooting at exactly? CHAIRPERSON Are you talking about him personally or his group? MS LOONAT CHAIRPERSON Why did you shoot? MR KHWELA I was firing because I realised that I was supposed to shoot, because I realised that there was somebody in front of me. MS LOONAT CHAIRPERSON MS LOONAT Yes Mr Chairman. CHAIRPERSON MS LOONAT Mr Khwela what do you have to say about how you feel since this attack, in which so many people lost their lives, including your friends? MR KHWELA I regret what I have done because whether I did it, because when the people of Efoluweni were attacked, when I realised that they were attacked actually that made me to attack, so I regret what I have done. MS LOONAT What in fact you have done is actually attacked IFP members because they used to attack ANC members in all your areas, is that correct? MR KHWELA MS LOONAT So this was a revenge attack and the first time that you have ever taken part in such, is that correct? MR KHWELA Yes. CHAIRPERSON For how long before you joined in this attack, for how many months before that, were these attacks taking place between the two groups, or do you not know? MR KHWELA It was for a long time. MS LOONAT May I assist the applicant, Mr Chairman. CHAIRPERSON Yes, certainly. MS LOONAT Mr Khwela, you said that these attacks were taking place from, as far as you can remember, when you were in Standard 6. Is that correct? MR KHWELA MS LOONAT So you were witnessing these attacks long before you participated a revenge attack yourself? Is that correct? CHAIRPERSON INTERPRETER MR KHWELA Yes it is the truth. CHAIRPERSON Thank you. MS LOONAT When Baba Khwela gave you the instruction, chose you particularly for that one attack that you were involved in, besides that you were and ANC member, how well acquainted are you with him? MR KHWELA I know him from the Umbumbulu area where he was a resident. He was the person who was residing there at Umbumbulu in the area of Chibini when I was residing at Emadundube. MS LOONAT He has the same surname as yourself, are you related to him? MR KHWELA MS LOONAT Your relationship with him is a political one only? MR KHWELA CHAIRPERSON Did you know him to be one of the political leaders in your area? MR KHWELA MS LOONAT Your first personal encounter with him was when he chose you to go and attack an IFP stronghold? MR KHWELA MS LOONAT Is there anything that you would like to tell the Committee members about how you feel about, besides the remorse that you are showing, how you feel about your political ambition? Are you still a member of the ANC and do you still continue to participate in their activities? CHAIRPERSON MS LOONAT Mr Chairman, I was hoping that if he were released, has he changed his political affiliation as a result of being imprisoned as a result. ADV BOSMAN Is that very relevant? Are we not concerned with what he did at the time and why he did it? CHAIRPERSON I think you asked him earlier, does he still believe in the ANC and I think he said yes. MS LOONAT Yes, Mr Chairman. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS LOONAT CHAIRPERSON: Ms Williams are there any questions you wish to put to this witness? MS WILLIAMS Thank you Mr Chairperson. CHAIRPERSON MS WILLIAMS Yes, Mr Chairperson. CHAIRPERSON MS WILLIAMS Mr Chairperson just quickly. CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS WILLIAMS MR KHWELA Mzwamandla Cele. MS WILLIAMS MR KHWELA He said there will be a meeting in the area of Esudwini. MS WILLIAMS Did he advise you as to the nature of that meeting? MR KHWELA MS WILLIAMS MR KHWELA MS WILLIAMS When you arrived at the home of Baba what exactly were the instructions that you were given? MR KHWELA MS WILLIAMS Were any reasons given as to why you had to particularly attack that house and was it in respect of any other attack that had occurred prior to this in your area? MR KHWELA What I discovered is that it was the person who had surely been bothering a lot, who had been troublesome for a long time now, Mashelela. MS WILLIAMS MR KHWELA Mr Khuzwayo. As a result he actually had to be attacked on that day. MS WILLIAMS Was it in response to an attack that had occurred previously? CHAIRPERSON This must have been attacks and counter attacks carried out over a period of time. MS WILLIAMS The allegation has been made that Mr Khuzwayo was a warlord in the area. Could Mr Khwela respond to that please? Did he know he was a warlord? Why had he specifically been chosen? CHAIRPERSON I thought he said that Khuzwayo was regarded and accepted as a troublesome person, a troublemaker in that area. MS WILLIAMS Okay. MR KHWELA MS WILLIAMS MR KHWELA MS WILLIAMS Mr Khwela what weapons did you have in your possession? I know you had a homemade gun, what other weapons did you have with you. MR KHWELA Is that you in singular or you in plural? MS WILLIAMS As a whole. What weapons did the group have as a whole? MR KHWELA MS WILLIAMS When you arrived at the place where the incident took place, what was the scene like there? Was it an area where there were homesteads there? Did you anticipate there were going to be people there who might be armed? What was the scene like when you arrived there? MR KHWELA It was a residence area. CHAIRPERSON MR KHWELA People were actually running away from their houses when we arrive at that area in Empusheni. CHAIRPERSON They were being shot at? MR KHWELA Yes. MS WILLIAMS Did any of the people who were being shot at have any arms or weapons with them? Did they pose a threat to you? MR KHWELA MS WILLIAMS But when they attacked the persons, when they arrived there, those people were unarmed, they were residents in the area, most of the people who were attacked were women and children. It was highly unlikely that they would have been armed and would have posed a threat to 15 armed men. CHAIRPERSON These cohorts just opened fire when they found themselves landing in the enemy territory. MS WILLIAMS CHAIRPERSON MS WILLIAMS MR KHWELA No. MS WILLIAMS That, as far as I am instructed, the grandmother and three children were in a home which was then attacked by members of the gang which you associated yourself with whereby they killed the 5 year old daughter and seriously injured 2 of the young boys in that kraal. Those 2 boys are here today, both of them sustained serious injuries to their arms and are unable to use their arms as proficiently as they should be able to. Do you have anything to say to that family? MR KHWELA To the family I would actually like to apologise because what happened, it was directed to Mr Khuzwayo who was the troublesome person. MS WILLIAMS MR KHWELA Because we were at the IFP area, that is actually why the people started shooting, that is how the shooting started, because as the person who used to attack, he would actually shoot randomly. MS WILLIAMS Were any shots fired at you by the residents of that area? Do you remember? MR KHWELA MS WILLIAMS CHAIRPERSON From where he ran away? MS WILLIAMS MR KHWELA MS WILLIAMS So could you see it from the road? MR KHWELA Yes I could see. MS WILLIAMS Now Mr Khwela you have told the Commission that you know of none others who were involved in the incident apart from the names which you had named, is that correct? MR KHWELA MS WILLIAMS I put it to you that you were a supporter of the ANC, you lived in a specific area, when you went to that meeting, you would have been to countless meetings before that, you would have been able to identify those people on sight, and now you are telling the Committee today that you cannot identify any of the other 15, or approximately 9 people, whose names are not here today, you cannot tell the Commission those names. You lived in a specific area, when you went to that meeting, you would have been to countless meetings before that, you would have been able to identify those people on sight, and now you are telling the Committee today that you cannot identify any of the other 15, or approximately 9 people whose names are not here today, you cannot tell the Commission those names? MR KHWELA It was for the first time that I attended the meeting there. It was for the first time. The meeting that I would attend, it was the meeting at Efoluweni. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS WILLIAMS CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS MTANGA: I have one question, Chairperson. CHAIRPERSON Yes certainly. MS MTANGA Mr Khwela, the person you have admitted to having shot at, did you actually shoot the person, or did you injure the person? MR KHWELA MS MTANGA My question is, did you actually shoot at him and injure him? CHAIRPERSON him, do you even know that? MR KHWELA MS MTANGA Are you able to tell this Committee what exactly you are applying for? MR KHWELA I am asking for amnesty because I want to review the evil deed that I did and actually apologise to people who actually I caused damage to, there at Empusheni. MS MTANGA When you say evil deed, what evil deed are you referring to? MR KHWELA That of associating myself with the people who were actually going to kill there. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS MTANGA CHAIRPERSON Any re-examination? Are you proposing to call any other witness? MS LOONAT No, Mr Chairperson. CHAIRPERSON Ms Williams. MS WILLIAMS Thank you Mr Chairperson. May I please call Mr Robert Khuzwayo? WITNESS EXCUSED BABA ROBERT KHUZWAYO (sworn states) CHAIRPERSON Ms Williams. MS WILLIAMS Thank you Mr Chairperson. EXAMINATION BY MS WILLIAMS: Mr Khuzwayo, please could you tell the Committee why you are here today? MR KHUZWAYO I was asked by the TRC to come here and listen to what Mr Khwela has to say when he is asking for Amnesty. CHAIRPERSON You can lead him, you know. Ask him personal questions, just to establish who he is. MS WILLIAMS MR KHUZWAYO At the moment I am the Councilor. MS WILLIAMS For the Empusheni area? MR KHUZWAYO Yes. MS WILLIAMS And how long have you been resident in that area? MR KHUZWAYO I was born there. MS WILLIAMS Mr Khuzwayo, you have heard the evidence of Mr Khwela today. CHAIRPERSON What are you by occupation, Mr Khuzwayo? What kind of work have you been doing? MR KHUZWAYO You mean now or at that particular point in time? CHAIRPERSON Generally, what work have you been doing? MR KHUZWAYO Taxi owner. CHAIRPERSON What kind of education have you had? MR KHUZWAYO I went as far as Standard 6. CHAIRPERSON How old are you, Mr Khuzwayo? MR KHUZWAYO I am 63 years old. CHAIRPERSON Are you at present still a taxi owner, or are you now retired? MR KHUZWAYO I have retired. CHAIRPERSON Please proceed. MS WILLIAMS Mr Khuzwayo, you have heard the testimony of Mr Khwela today? MR KHUZWAYO Yes. MS WILLIAMS How do you respond to that testimony? What would you like to say to the Commission with regards to the Amnesty Application of Mr Khwela? MR KHUZWAYO What I know was happening at Efoluweni, it was the violence between the taxi people and the community, not political violence. Secondly, that actually passed, that is the incident that was relating to the taxis and the community. It is a mistake for him to say that I was attacked because I was troublesome. What I know is that in that area, there was a misunderstanding between the Khwela family, it was a quarrel between the Khwela and the Msomi people and then the violence started. It was just a distance from where I stay. That violence occurred. Msomi was my friend because I was the person in charge of the taxis at Efoluweni, then Msomi was in charge at Guamakuta. What I actually think is that probably I was actually partaking when there was the violence. I have never attacked, I did not actually attack the area of Fugunyamini where Khwela was residing under the kingship of Cele. The violence that I saw was actually across. MS WILLIAMS What you are saying to the Commission today is that the act which took place on the 18th of August 1992 was not motivated by political objectives, it was as a result of the taxi violence in the area, is that your evidence? MR KHUZWAYO Please explain to me, are you referring to Efoluweni or Emgunyameni? MS WILLIAMS Wherever you stayed, Mr Khuzwayo. He attacked you in your area. He said that he attacked you because there was a political motive behind the attack. He was an attacking an IFP stronghold. He was a member of the ANC. You have told the Committee that the attack was as a result of taxi violence. Is that your evidence to the Commission today? MR KHUZWAYO MS WILLIAMS Mr Khuzwayo, because Mr Khwela was not actually present when the attack took place, would you be able to inform the Committee as to what actually took place when the members of the gang that attacked you, do you recall the events as they took place on that day, as far as you can remember? MR KHUZWAYO CHAIRPERSON I think we want him to explain what actually happened at his house. Forget what Khwela said, your Counsel is asking you to tell us what happened as far as you are concerned, at your house that day. What happened? MR KHUZWAYO I was at home in the house. There was a committee meeting for the taxis when we actually heard the gunshots and then we went outside and we realised that people were running away. Everybody tried to run away. That is what I saw. MS WILLIAMS Now where did you go when the shooting started. Did you stay or did you escape? MR KHUZWAYO I left the house. Then I told the Committee members that they should go into the taxi and they actually took off with that taxi. Then I ran away on foot because my children were there, and they were trying to run away, going into the bushes. I followed them until we actually were across that bush. When the attack was launched at my house, I was aware, I was there and everybody else was running away and other people actually wanted to see what is actually happening, until the police were called and then on their arrival, the people who were attacking then ran away. Then we went back home. MS WILLIAMS Could you identify any of the attackers or did you flee before they actually arrived at your home? MR KHUZWAYO MS WILLIAMS You say that you knew it was Khwela. Did you know Khwela before this incident? MR KHUZWAYO Baba Khwela was actually a taxi owner at Guamakhuta and this Khoni Khwela was actually the conductor there at that taxi rank, but on that particular day I did not see him. But I know him and Baba, I also know him. MS WILLIAMS Was Mr Khwela known to the people in that area? You mentioned that, from the information you heard after coming back to the area, his name was mentioned. Did the people in that area know him? MR KHUZWAYO MS WILLIAMS You say that it was Baba Khwela and that it was Prince Khoni Khwela whose names you heard after the attack? MR KHUZWAYO MS WILLIAMS And was Baba Khwela a rival taxi owner to yourself? Did he operate a rival taxi? MR KHUZWAYO MS WILLIAMS The persons who are in your area are here today. They have asked that you speak on their behalf. What would you like to say on their behalf to the Committee about the act which took place? MR KHUZWAYO MS WILLIAMS What is your attitude towards the applicant receiving amnesty, should it be granted to him? MR KHUZWAYO MS WILLIAMS Thank you Mr Chairperson. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS WILLIAMS MS LOONAT Yes Mr Chairman. MR KHUZWAYO CHAIRPERSON MR KHUZWAYO ADV SANDI Just to clarify this. Do you know of any violence that was taking place between the ANC and the IFP in this area we are talking about? MR KHUZWAYO ADV SANDI Explain this Mr Khuzwayo. We are not talking about you arriving at a meeting, but do you personally know whether there was violence between the ANC and the IFP supporters, attacking and killing each other? MR KHUZWAYO No. ADV SANDI What was said by the Applicant was that you were a member of the IFP, do you agree with that? MR KHUZWAYO Yes, I do agree. ADV SANDI Thank you. CHAIRPERSON For how long have you been a member of the IFP? MR KHUZWAYO Ever since the beginning of the IFP I have been a member, although I do not remember the year exactly, but it has been a long time that I have been an IFP member. CHAIRPERSON And your friends, did you persuade your friends and all to join the IFP as well? MR KHUZWAYO Yes, I actually campaigned for people to join IFP. Yes a lot of people actually have joined the organisation. CHAIRPERSON You mentioned that Mr Msomi was your friend. Did you recruit him to become a member of the IFP? MR KHUZWAYO ADV SANDI This committee of taxi owners you were referring to, did you have a number of people, did you have a lot of people there who were members of the IFP? MR KHUZWAYO MS LOONAT Mr Khuzwayo, the question put to you was, is Mr Msomi and IFP member? MR KHUZWAYO MS LOONAT I find that strange because you do say that he is a very good friend of yours, however, you claim that this attack was purely a taxi warfare and nothing else. You also said that at the time that Khwela attacked, he was on his way to attack your house. On that particular day you had left before you could see who actually arrived to fight? Is that correct? MR KHUZWAYO MS LOONAT When you ran away, did you see who was attacking you? Before you ran away, or as you ran away, did you see who your attackers were? MR KHUZWAYO MS LOONAT So in fact your evidence here is hearsay. You assume it was Baba Khwela and Khoni Khwela, correct? CHAIRPERSON MS LOONAT MR KHUZWAYO ADV SANDI Sorry Ms Loonat, just one detail. You say Khoni Khwela was a conductor. Do you know who he was employed by, who was he working for? MR KHUZWAYO MS LOONAT So in fact, Mr Khuzwayo, you are afraid of both Baba Khwela and Khoni Khwela. Is that correct? MR KHUZWAYO CHAIRPERSON MR KHUZWAYO CHAIRPERSON Well now I want to tell you that amongst the papers we have is a case in the Supreme Court where the applicant was charged with a number of counts of murder and attempted murder. The court found him guilty, not because he shot or killed anybody, but because he joined a group of people, some of whom may have done the shooting and the killing. MR KHUZWAYO CHAIRPERSON And there was not evidence that he shot or killed anybody else besides the one shot and the Court found that he was guilty because he associated himself with the others. Do you understand? MR KHUZWAYO Yes, I do hear that. What I am actually saying is that what is seen by the Court, I would actually deny it, but CHAIRPERSON Yes are going to deny something when you know nothing about it? MR KHUZWAYO CHAIRPERSON I want to ask you, did you know a man called Ngcgcina Cele? MR KHUZWAYO No. CHAIRPERSON Do you know a man called Bongi Nkosi Khwela? MR KHUZWAYO No, I also do not know such a person. CHAIRPERSON Did you know that on the day of the attack that was aimed at you, amongst the attackers were two people who were killed and those are the two people whose names I have mentioned? MR KHUZWAYO When the police came I actually heard this mentioned, the names of such people were actually mentioned. CHAIRPERSON They were in fact dead. MR KHUZWAYO Yes, indeed they said they were already dead. CHAIRPERSON In your area, near your house. MR KHUZWAYO CHAIRPERSON Alright, so these two people whose names I mentioned were part of the attackers and they were killed in your area during that attack. Do you know how they were killed, or who killed them? MR KHUZWAYO CHAIRPERSON If the information is placed before you, you were not there, but if the information is now placed before you that two of the people that were involved in the attack were themselves killed, are you surprised? MR KHUZWAYO CHAIRPERSON And you have no idea as to who could have killed them when they were among the attackers? MR KHUZWAYO ADV BOSMAN May I just come in here with a question please? Mr Khuzwayo, is Mr Baba Khwela still living in the area? MR KHUZWAYO ADV BOSMAN When last did you see him? MR KHUZWAYO ADV BOSMAN Thank you, Ms Loonat. MS LOONAT Mr Khuzwayo, so the attack took place in 1991, is that correct? CHAIRPERSON 1992. MS LOONAT I beg your pardon, 1992, is that correct? MR KHUZWAYO MS LOONAT Mr Khuzwayo, I beg your pardon. The point I was trying to make is that in actual fact the last time you say you saw Baba Khwela was in 1992. Is that correct? You have not heard or seen from/of him since then? MR KHUZWAYO MS LOONAT So Mr Khuzwayo in fact what you are saying is that you have been not living in fear of Mashilela Baba Khwela but you came here today especially to inform the Committee that you are and would be living in fear of my client should he be released today and that in fact my client is a more dangerous person to you as far as taxi violation concerned, than Baba Khwela who is actually the owner of taxis. Is that correct? MR KHUZWAYO MS LOONAT So what are you afraid of and how is the Commission not assisting you? MR KHUZWAYO MS LOONAT MR KHUZWAYO MS LOONAT MR KHUZWAYO CHAIRPERSON MR KHUZWAYO MS LOONAT Mr Khuzwayo you are under oath. Please tell me, as a member of the IFP have you ever been involved in any attacks in the area on ANC members? MR KHUZWAYO MS LOONAT Mr Khuzwayo, you are then denying that you are a warlord for the IFP as has been described? MR KHUZWAYO CHAIRPERSON There may be some lucky warlords who are still walking about. MR KHUZWAYO Well, I deny that. CHAIRPERSON Especially bearing in mind that you admit to having recruited members for the IFP. MR KHUZWAYO Yes, I recruited people to join IFP. MS LOONAT MR KHUZWAYO MS LOONAT Finally, you know that that was hearsay evidence. Thank you. MR KHUZWAYO Yes, I do know that. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS LOONAT CHAIRPERSON: Ms Mtanga, any questions? CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS MTANGA A few questions, thank you Chairperson. Mr Khuzwayo, what position did you hold in the IFP? MR KHUZWAYO The Chairperson of IFP. MS MTANGA Would you agree with the evidence that the people in your area were predominantly IFP members? MR KHUZWAYO Yes, people who were in that area, it was only the IFP people, probably it could be few people who were ANC. MS MTANGA Did you give any evidence in Court or were you a State witness in the trial of Mr Khwela? MR KHUZWAYO I was in Court on that day. Yes I did. MS MTANGA Did you give any statements? MR KHUZWAYO I think so, however, whatever I said, it was written. MS MTANGA Are you aware that Mr Khwela gave evidence in Court and his evidence was that the attacks on your area and on your family were politically motivated? Are you aware of that information? MR KHUZWAYO MS MTANGA The taxi violence that you referred to was in fact between the taxi owners and the community. Am I right? MR KHUZWAYO It was because of the increase in fare, that was where the actual disagreement started, the conflict started. MS MTANGA ...(indistinct) that taxi violence, was it the community fighting the taxi owners, or the taxi owners fighting the community? MR KHUZWAYO Yes, it was the conflict of increase of fare. What I actually mean is that the community was not happy because of the increase in the taxi fare, that was what the conflict was all about. MS MTANGA If, as is stated here, that the only violence that was going on in the area was the taxi violence, what would have made people from Efoluweni to move into your area at Empusheni and kill the residents who were not taxi owners, and you are a taxi owner, if the motive for the attack was mainly the taxi violence? MR KHUZWAYO CHAIRPERSON How far is Esudweni from Efoluweni? MR KHUZWAYO CHAIRPERSON Where did the attackers come from? MR KHUZWAYO What I heard is that they were from Esudweni. MS MTANGA Mr Khuzwayo, in the taxi violence that you have told us about, was it a normal occurrence that when this taxi violence took place, if you are a taxi owner in the area, were the people who live in your area being killed because of your taxi involvement? MR KHUZWAYO ADV SANDI MR KHUZWAYO MS MTANGA CHAIRPERSON Yes. MS MTANGA Thank you. MR KHUZWAYO I actually wish to emphasise that what actually happened at Efoluweni, that was something of the past, the misunderstanding between the community and taxi owners, it was something of the past. My attack was actually after a long time. MS MTANGA The point I want to make with you is that it was not a normal occurrence for people, that is for residents in the area, to be attacked or to suffer because a person who lives amongst them is a taxi owner and is involved in a taxi rivalry only. Do you agree with me? MR KHUZWAYO Yes, I do agree. MS MTANGA Would you therefore agree that there could have been another motive behind the attacks on the people and yourself, other than the taxi misunderstanding that you have told us about? MR KHUZWAYO CHAIRPERSON MR KHUZWAYO CHAIRPERSON MR KHUZWAYO MS MTANGA Mr Khuzwayo, do you know what was the particular affiliation of Mr Baba Khwela? MR KHUZWAYO No I do not know. I only know him involved in taxis. MS MTANGA Would you say to this Committee that it came as a shock to you that you were attacked because of your IFP involvement? MR KHUZWAYO NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS MTANGA CHAIRPERSON: Any re-examination? MS LOONAT No Mr Chairperson. CHAIRPERSON COMMITTEE ADJOURNS ON RESUMPTION MS LOONAT IN ARGUMENT Mr Chairman, on behalf of the Applicant, I just have the following to say. For the record, he left school at an early age, Standard 6. His father abandoned him in the care of his mother, a woman who earned at that time a meager income of a lowly tea lady. I hasten to add that she too was a firm supporter of the ANC party together with the others living in the same neighbourhood as the Accused and this did impact on his political inclinations without any doubt. Mr Chairman, admittedly on that fateful day, 18th August 1992, he participated in a well-planned attack, but on a political opponent. Well planned by others more experienced than my client, in such matters. My client was a tool in their hands so to speak, obeying orders issued by Baba Khwela, a man not related to him in spite of the name, but was a most respected senior member of the ANC. The attack on Robert L. Khuzwayo, who, as we gathered, was the Chairman of the IFP, a warlord, in Empusheni reserve, the attack on that kraal that day resulted in loss of life on both sides, for which my client, it would appear, bears the full brunt. It was a common purpose, an attack which was a politically motivated attack on the IFP, a fact accepted by Justice Magid and expressed in his Judgment. At the age of 23 this was his first criminal offence. In his mind this was supposed to be an act of self-preservation, not what actually unfolded in front of his very eyes that day. He realises now that that is not the way to resolve any of the political problems he is experiencing. Time spent in prison has endorsed this resolve. His remorse is very profound. He lost his own friends in that attack and has made full disclosure of those people whom he knew that accompanied him on that day. He is even prepared, should he subjected to an I.D. parade, to assist further with providing the names of co-passengers. He wishes he could do more to assist the authorities in their search for the other attackers, thereby assisting the family of the victims to identify the murderers. Why indeed should he be the only one to pay a debt to society, when close on 15 others were involved? His explanation, I repeat, is that he met the others for a short period of time and for the very first time on that day. It was not a social gathering that day, 18th August 1992. However, as I said, he has made full disclosure and it was common purpose. MS WILLIAMS IN ARGUMENT Thank you Mr Chairman. Honourable Committee. CHAIRPERSON What evidence is there for that? MS WILLIAMS Regarding the political objective, I would argue that there is a divergence between the instruction and the actual act that was carried out on that day. The instruction was a precise instruction which was to go to the home of Mr A1 Khuzwayo and to kill him. When the Applicant and his co-perpetrators arrived at the area where they committed the offence, they shot randomly CHAIRPERSON The question is why? MS WILLIAMS I believe they were bloodthirsty and that they were seeking vengeance for whatever reason, whether it be political or not political. I think they saw them, the people in the area, as being aligned to Mr Khuzwayo for whatever reason and as an act of violence and to further an objective or whatever that might have been, they attacked those people who were innocent and helpless and harmless. CHAIRPERSON I understand you making that submission but look at page 27 of the Judgment. The second paragraph from the top says "It must not be forgotten that this was a well-planned attack on a political opponent. So much so that we have evidence that the attackers, or most of them, were wearing either defence force or police camouflage uniforms." "While it appears that there was a political or party political motive for the attack on the kraal of Robert Khuzwayo, nevertheless, the impi of which the Accused is a member, committed unprovoked attacks on residents of the neighbouring kraals as a result of which several people were killed." MS WILLIAMS ADV BOSMAN But, Ms Williams, need it be on an order? If what they did was done in furtherance of the aims and objectives of the ANC, would the Applicant not, in terms of that, qualify for Amnesty? MS WILLIAMS Yes, Committee Member, that leads me on to the issue of proportionality in the sense that was there proportionality between the instruction and the actual act that took place. ADV BOSMAN But are you conceding then that if they acted outside their formal order at that time that it was in furtherance of a political objective, on the evidence before us? MS WILLIAMS I would have to concede that point, yes. CHAIRPERSON MS WILLIAMS CHAIRPERSON I understand that. MS WILLIAMS Thank you. CHAIRPERSON Do you wish to address us? MS MTANGA I leave it in the hands of the Committee, Chairperson. CHAIRPERSON MS LOONAT CHAIRPERSON Thank you. ADV SANDI Just one thing, Ms Loonat. In regard to the submission that has been made by Ms Williams, proportionality and all that, specific instruction was given to the applicant, his group, to go and attack Mr Khuzwayo. On the way they indiscriminately shoot people in the area. Do you want to make any submissions specifically in regard to that? A five year old child is killed in the process. Do you have anything to say on that? CHAIRPERSON MS WILLIAMS Mr Chairperson, that particular person was killed in a kraal, there were four of them in that kraal and the gunman stood at the door and actually shot into the kraal. CHAIRPERSON Yes, without regard to who was in it. MS WILLIAMS Correct. MS LOONAT CHAIRPERSON MS LOONAT Mr Chairman, I felt that as well but when I put it to him, his understanding of Apartheid was not the same as ours, to him it was an end to all kinds of political fighting and as far as the attack where the five year old child was hurt and others were seriously maimed, my client was also subjected to this kind of attacks in his area from the IFP members and in the same manner, unarmed women, children, whoever was there, were attacked while they were sitting in their kraals and so it was his way of a revenge thing and trying to resolve matters. ADV BOSMAN Do we have evidence in that regard Ms Loonat? I do not recall, can you refer us to any particular evidence that unarmed women and children were attacked? Is that not just an inference that you are making against the general background of the violence at the time? MS LOONAT When I consulted with my client ADV BOSMAN CHAIRPERSON MS LOONAT I withdraw my statement. CHAIRPERSON Alright. Any questions? ADV BOSMAN No questions thank you Chairperson. CHAIRPERSON Thank you very much. This brings to a conclusion this particular hearing. This Committee will consider the application in due course and in due course will make known its decision. Thank you very much the Committee will adjourn now, and before I adjourn may I enquire whether it is possible for us to make an earlier beginning tomorrow than we did this morning. MS MTANGA Yes Chairperson, I would say that if we could start at half past 9. CHAIRPERSON And with what matter will we be dealing with tomorrow? MS MTANGA We will be dealing with the application of Gumede. CHAIRPERSON And are Counsel involved in that matter? MS MTANGA CHAIRPERSON Yes. Will you arrange with Counsel and note to remind him that we are going to start at 9.30 tomorrow morning? MS MTANGA I will do so, Chairperson. CHAIRPERSON Thank you very much Ms Williams for your assistance in this matter and Ms Loonat, thank you. This meeting will now rise and resume at 9.30 tomorrow morning. COMMITTEE ADJOURNS