amntrans AMNESTY HEARINGS 1999-06-08 PRETORIA 4 DAVID SOLOMON SIMELANE 5305/97 https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=53452&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/amntrans/1999/99060310_pre_990608pr.htm CHAIRPERSON Alright, we'll take the testimony of Mr Simelane before we adjourn. Mr Simelane, you will have to take a fresh oath. We have your full names. DAVID SOLOMON SIMELANE (sworn states) CHAIRPERSON Thank you, please sit down. Mr Berger? EXAMINATION BY MR BERGER Thank you, Chairperson. Mr Simelane, I'm going to be very short with your evidence. You've heard the evidence of Mr Masina, in relation to the instructions which he got from you and the report that he made back to you. Before we discuss Mr Chaupe and why a decision was taken that he should be killed, do you have anything to add or modify in relation to the evidence given by Mr Masina? MR SIMELANE I don't think I have anything to add. All that he said is the truth, nothing else. MR BERGER You confirm that you gave him an instruction to kill Mr Chaupe, in Soweto? MR SIMELANE I gave him the instructions after I was recalled from Italy to lead the special operation. This was broadly discussed with my superior in Lusaka, after my return from Italy as ANC representative and I was given this responsibility of the leading the special operation. I was told that this very notorious policeman of Special Branch in Soweto has been terrorising our people, the school children and so on. Jabu and the other group went into a rigorous training in - after the assessment was made of people who come from that area, who knew the area very well and Shlube, they underwent a special training, shooting from a moving car and so and so on and using an AK, ...(Russian) that time. After they passed their training he was then sent back to Maputo, debriefed on his mission and sent to Swaziland, Swaziland to South Africa. MR BERGER And then he returned to you after the first mission to say that he was unsuccessful. MR SIMELANE That's correct. MR BERGER You sent him in again to try and successfully complete the mission this time? MR SIMELANE That's correct. MR BERGER The identification of Shlube as a target, was that made at a level higher up than you? MR SIMELANE It was made a higher level, yes, in Lusaka. MR BERGER When you - did you receive the news that Shlube had been killed from Mr Masina, or did you hear about it before? MR SIMELANE Officially I got it from Masina, but it was already in the news that - he had not died by then, I think he died at the hospital, it was already in the newspapers and the radio. And later on, I think in the later afternoon the information came to us that he's already dead. He was not buried in Soweto because there were fears that people will demonstrate or they will burn his body, so he was sent to the Transkei. I don't know where in the Transkei. But there great jubilation from the people in Soweto and those who were in exile at that time. MR BERGER Thank you, Mr Simelane, I have no further questions. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR BERGER CHAIRPERSON Thank you. Yes, I assume gentlemen, your position wouldn't change. MR BOOYSEN That's correct, Mr Chairman. NO QUESTIONS BY MR BOOYSEN MR RAMMUTLA That's correct with me, Mr Chairman. NO QUESTIONS BY MR RAMMUTLA CHAIRPERSON Ms Mtanga, have you got any questions? MS MTANGA I have no questions, Chairperson, thank you. NO QUESTIONS BY MS MTANGA CHAIRPERSON Mr Berger, I assume you don't have anything else. MR BERGER Nothing further on ...(intervention) ADV DE JAGER Could you just help us, who identified him as a target? From who did you receive the instruction? MR SIMELANE Well I received the instructions from the late Joe Slovo. They had a list of a number of notorious Special Branch when I came from Italy and I was shown that list. CHAIRPERSON Yes, Mr Berger? MR BERGER Nothing further, Chairperson. CHAIRPERSON Mr Simelane, you are excused. MR SIMELANE Thank you, Mr Chairman. WITNESS EXCUSED CHAIRPERSON Have you got any other testimony in regard to this incident, Mr Berger? MR BERGER No other testimony, no. CHAIRPERSON Is that the applicants' case in respect of this one? MR BERGER Yes, that is. CHAIRPERSON I assume there is no other evidence that you would want to lead in respect of this incident. MS MTANGA Yes, that is so, Chairperson. CHAIRPERSON You can address us at the end of all of the testimony in respect of this incident and all of the others. MR BERGER Thank you. CHAIRPERSON We'll adjourn for lunch for 30 minutes. COMMITTEE ADJOURNS ON RESUMPTION CHAIRPERSON Ms Mtanga, there was a person with a notice that come into us during the adjournment or the lunch break, have you attended to them? MS MTANGA Do you mean the Chaupe family, Chairperson? CHAIRPERSON Yes. MS MTANGA Yes, I've spoken to them and they don't have anything to say. What I've said to them is the best we can try and do is to give them copies of the part of the transcript that relates to their father's, the evidence relating to their father. CHAIRPERSON So you've made an arrangement that is to their satisfaction? MS MTANGA Yes, Chairperson, I have. The person who is attending is the daughter, who was at that time very young. The mother was unable to attend and therefore she doesn't have anything to add to what has been said. CHAIRPERSON Was it more simply to attend to hear what transpires and what's the evidence and so on? MS MTANGA I have explained everything to her and the role played and what exactly would have been the position if they had come earlier. CHAIRPERSON You're satisfied that that matter is sorted out? MS MTANGA Yes, Chairperson. CHAIRPERSON Alright. MS MTANGA And she is also satisfied. CHAIRPERSON Ja, we assume they're not opposing the application as such. MS MTANGA No, she is not, Chairperson. CHAIRPERSON Alright. So we're able to proceed with the other incident? MS MTANGA Yes, we are. Thank you. CHAIRPERSON Thank you.