amntrans AMNESTY HEARING 1999-06-09 PRETORIA 5 JOSEPH ELIAS MAKHURA 7695/? https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=53454&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/amntrans/1999/99060310_pre_990609pr.htm CHAIRPERSON Today is Wednesday the 9th June 1999. It is the continuation of the amnesty applications of O Masina and others. The panel and the parties are constituted as previously indicated on the record. Now Mr Berger, if my memory serves me well we concluded the testimony of Mr Masango yesterday afternoon, would that be correct? MR BERGER That is correct Chairperson, the next witness would be Mr Joseph Elias Makhura. MR RICHARD (inaudible) CHAIRPERSON Yes of course Mr Richard, yes. JOSEPH ELIAS MAKHURA (sworn states) CHAIRPERSON Mr Berger? MR BERGER Thank you Chairperson, I'm not sure if my microphone is working or if the headpiece is working but Mr Makhura will be giving you the evidence in Sotho. INTERPRETER Chairperson, may I just indicate that at the moment we don't have a Sesotho interpreter but we can reach a compromise. If he understands isiZulu that will be fine, I can do the interpretation from Sesotho to English. CHAIRPERSON Yes we seem to have a potential difficulty with the translation, your client indicated he would be speaking in Sesotho, is that right? We don't have a Sesotho interpreter I am told now but the interpreter has indicated to us that possibly if your client understands Zulu, I don't know if that might help us so I'm not sure how that's going to assist, it might be that we have to take another witness if we can't resolve it. MR BERGER Let me try and clear that up perhaps. CHAIRPERSON And perhaps let me ask the interpreter. Won't you just speak to Mr Makhura and just explain the situation to him and see what you can come to? INTERPRETER We will be able to communicate but then I'm going to simply my Zulu. He will continue testifying in Sesotho, I'd have no problem interpreting the testimony into English or translating it into English. CHAIRPERSON Sorry, just explain to me and where does the Zulu come into it? INTERPRETER My Sesotho is very bad so I am suggesting to him that I continue speaking isiZulu to him and he continues speaking Sesotho and I'll do the translation from Sesotho into English. MR BERGER Chairperson, if it's possible for us to get the services of a Sesotho interpreter it would I think be preferable because there may be nuances lost. The next witness after Mr Makhura was going to be Mr Potsane and he wants to give his evidence in English so perhaps we could swap Mr Makhura and Mr Potsane around and then by the time Mr Potsane is finished, hopefully a Sesotho interpreter will be available? CHAIRPERSON Yes Mr Berger, I must say that is preferable. I just want to ascertain what the situation is with the Sesotho interpreter. Okay I think to save some time perhaps we should let Mr Makhura stand down in the interim, we're just trying to resolve this situation and then perhaps we can listen to Mr Potsane? MR BERGER We will do that, thank you. WITNESS EXCUSED