amntrans AMNESTY HEARINGS 1999-06-15 EAST LONDON 2 MAKAYA WELLINGTON PETENI https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=53479&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/amntrans/1999/99061418_eln_990615el.htm MAKAYA WELLINGTON PETENI (sworn states) CHAIRPERSON Mr Obose. EXAMINATION BY MR OBOSE You are employed by the South African Police Services, is that correct? MR PETENI That is correct. MR OBOSE What rank do you hold? MR PETENI I am an inspector. MR OBOSE Did you go to the meeting of the 22nd March 1994 at Bisho police college? MR PETENI Yes that is correct Sir I was there. MR OBOSE Why? Why did you go there? MR PETENI I received a call from Gen Nqoya, a message. MR OBOSE What time did you get to the message? MR PETENI I arrived there at about 11. MR OBOSE What did you find when you got to the meeting? Was the meeting on already or not? MR PETENI I don't know whether when I arrived there, or let me put it this way, when I arrived there the main person who had called us, Gen Nqoya, was not there. There were police who were addressing the other police about the election but Gen Nqoya the one who called the meeting was not there. MR OBOSE Was there any singing of freedom songs or not when you got there? MR PETENI Yes, there were songs that were sung. MR OBOSE Did you participate or not in this singing of freedom song? MR PETENI Yes, I participated because what was important there, or what I knew about that day, was not the fact that -I knew the main purpose of my being there in that meeting that was called by Gen Nqoya, the reason why I went to that meeting is that I knew that we had to remove Brig Gqozo from his position because the police were not satisfied and the people at large, they were not satisfied, but there was nothing we could do at the time. There was no way that we had to deal with that fact. But he had helped us because he called us to the meeting in the hall. MR OBOSE So the idea was that once the larger number of police gather in one place, then the opportunity would then arise, is that what you had in mind? MR PETENI Yes, that is correct. MR OBOSE Now, how did this, very roughly, in fact occur? I mean the turning of the meeting to suit your purposes? MR PETENI What happened Sir, my role that I took when I arrived there, I sat down as there were others who were on the stage, I listened to Insp Mfene as he was addressing us and as we were waiting for Mr Nqoya, the police were discussing issues about finances, the sports club finances and what that money was used for. We had to sell the things that were bought by that money, but I didn't know how that was going to happen. So what happened is Brig Wuso, we found out that he was one of the men that were involved in the issues of sports club. It seemed as if there was money from sports club that they were misusing it and then it was said that Mr Wuso was going to be fetched and I was one of the people who went to him to fetch him, Mr Wuso. When we arrived at Mr Wuso, we told him that "Mr Wuso you are needed at the college, there is such and such a matter". We told him as we were told in the hall. Mr Wuso then stood up and he said he is a colonel and we can't just come that way to his office. Because there were a lot of us, he ended up standing up, leaving, but as there was a large number of us he was in front of us and he is a short man and I'm so short, I didn't see what was happening to him. So he was taken to the hall. I don't know anything about any other things. My involvement ended there. MR OBOSE How was the mood like when you got into Col Wuso's office of yourself and your group? MR PETENI It was quiet. MR OBOSE Where was Col Wuso's office, at the college or at the commissioner's office? MR PETENI It was in the offices next to the college. MR OBOSE Did you also remain in the hall until the early hours of the morning? MR PETENI That is correct. MR OBOSE Thank you. CHAIRPERSON Yes, thank you Mr Obose. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR OBOSE CHAIRPERSON Mr Nompozolo, any questions? MR NOMPOZOLO Thank you, yes, Mr Chairman. CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR NOMPOZOLO When Col Wuso was fetched, his office was left upside down because he was forcefully taken out of his office, not so? MR PETENI There is no such thing, I was there. MR NOMPOZOLO And when Col Wuso was fetched, Mr Nkwenkwe was there, not so? MR PETENI I don't think so Sir, because there were a lot of police there, so it's difficult to say such and such a person was there. I didn't see him. MR NOMPOZOLO Anyway, why were the policemen fetched, these officers fetched from their offices? MR PETENI It is because of the issues that they were needed for there in the hall, the issues that were discussed whilst we were still waiting for Gen Nqoya. Gen Nqoya left the police in the hall saying that he was going to come back. MR NOMPOZOLO And those issues were labour related issues, that is issues relating to the nature of the work of the police, the payments, the monies due to them and all that? MR PETENI Those were some of the issues but the main issue was the fact that the police were not treated properly, they wanted to remove Brig Gqozo, they were not satisfied by what he was doing. MR NOMPOZOLO And the removal of Brig Gqozo was not dependent on the corruption of the officers. MR PETENI The removal of Brig Gqozo, I want you to understand it this way Sir. The removal of Brig Gqozo - we wanted him to be removed because of what he did to us. We couldn't discuss with him issues that were important. The people who were close to him, the people who were his friends, were those that were taken from their offices so that they can be kept there. It is when we were still waiting for Brig Gqozo when these issues came up of misuse of money, while we were still waiting for Gqozo and Mr Nqoya. MR NOMPOZOLO And Brig Gqozo was never informed that there were people who were held hostage, pending his resignation, by yourselves. MR PETENI I wasn't one of the delegation who went to Brig Gqozo, so I wouldn't know about that. MR NOMPOZOLO Thank you Mr Chairman. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR NOMPOZOLO CHAIRPERSON Thank you Mr Nompozolo. Ms Collett, any questions? MS COLLETT No questions. CHAIRPERSON Thank you. Mr Mapoma any questions? MR MAPOMA Thank you Chairperson, I have no questions. CHAIRPERSON Has the panel got any questions? ADV BOSMAN No questions. DR TSOTSI No questions. CHAIRPERSON Re-examination? MR OBOSE None, thank you Mr Chairman. CHAIRPERSON Mr Peteni, you are excused. WITNESS EXCUSED MR OBOSE I don't know whether we will proceed during lunch-time, I see it is slightly after one now. CHAIRPERSON Yes, we are not going to take a lunch hour, we are forced to stop earlier this afternoon, so we are going to take a brief lunch adjournment. We were going to adjourn for lunch for 30 minutes, so have you got any other applicants that are ready? MR OBOSE Yes, Mr Chairman, yes. CHAIRPERSON Do you? Can we proceed to quarter past and then we will adjourn to quarter to 2? MR OBOSE Yes. CHAIRPERSON Who is next? MR OBOSE Simanga.