amntrans TRUTHAND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION, AMNESTY COMMITTEE 1999-06-30 TZANEEN 1 BRIAN CLIFFORD THOBEJANE AM 1025 https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=53512&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/amntrans/1999/990630_tza_990630tz.htm CHAIRPERSON MR MBANDAZAYO CHAIRPERSON MR VAN RENSBERG CHAIRPERSON Thank you Mr Van Rensberg. MS MTANGA Thank you Chairperson, I am LulamaMtanga, the Evidence Leader for the Commission. CHAIRPERSON MR MBANDAZAYO BRIAN CLIFFORD THOBEJANE (sworn states) CHAIRPERSON Thank you, you may be seated. EXAMINATION BY MR MBANDAZAYO CHAIRPERSON I am informed by the LogisticsOfficer that the photocopy machine is on its way here and as soon as it arrives,they will make copies of the affidavit which will be given to all the partiesconcerned, thank you Mr Mbandazayo. MR MBANDAZAYO MR THOBEJANE Yes, I agree. MR MBANDAZAYO Chairperson, I will proceedand read the affidavit. CHAIRPERSON Mr Mbandazayo, that affidavitwill be received as Exhibit A and as I said earlier, as soon as the photocopyingmachine is available, copies will be made and given to all the parties. MR MBANDAZAYO MR THOBEJANE MR MBANDAZAYO Before you proceed, tell theCommittee, do you know what was the name of Prince, his actual name? MR THOBEJANE MR MBANDAZAYO Then after you had jumped thefence and the helicopter was hovering above yourselves and you managed to escape,what happened thereafter? MR THOBEJANE MR MBANDAZAYO How were you arrested? MR THOBEJANE MR MBANDAZAYO That is all Chairperson andHonourable members, at this stage, thank you. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MBANDAZAYO CHAIRPERSON MR VAN RENSBERG CHAIRPERSON I don't know if you can get acopy thereof because we haven't got the photocopying, but I am sure Mr Mbandazayowill let you have the original. MR VAN RENSBERG Thank you very much. CHAIRPERSON Yes, I think if we could adjournlet's say for 10 minutes, thank you. COMMITTEE ADJOURNS ON RESUMPTION BRIAN CLIFFORD THOBEJANE (still under oath) CHAIRPERSON CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR VAN RENSBERG MR THOBEJANE It was identified by the latePrince. MR VAN RENSBERG At what stage were you informedof the identity of the farm that you were going to attack? MR THOBEJANE I arrived in March, in April,he told me about this. CHAIRPERSON Could you give, Mr Thobejane,some indication of approximately how long before the actual attack was, wereyou informed of the target? MR THOBEJANE It was three weeks before. MR VAN RENSBERG Did you actually yourselfcarry out a reconnaissance of the property before the attack? MR THOBEJANE No, I was not in the ReconnaissanceTeam. MR VAN RENSBERG But is it not so that bythe time that you went to the farm to attack the farm, you knew that it is achicken farm, owned by a white farmer, is that correct? MR THOBEJANE Can you please repeat your question. MR VAN RENSBERG The question is, by the timethat you went to the farm to attack it, you knew that it was a chicken farm,owned by a white farmer? MR THOBEJANE Yes, I knew that was a chickenfarm and it was owned by Mr Swanepoel. MR VAN RENSBERG Did you also know that ona daily basis, because of the sale of chickens, there are large amounts of cashbeing kept on the premises? MR THOBEJANE MR VAN RENSBERG Mr Thobejane, for exactlywhich counts, charges were you eventually found guilty of in a court of law? MR THOBEJANE It was murder, attempted murder,possession of arms and ammunition and explosives and attempted robbery. MR VAN RENSBERG Were all five of you foundguilty, or all three of you found guilty of attempted robbery? MR THOBEJANE Yes, all of us. CHAIRPERSON MR THOBEJANE During the trial, no, but afterwe were found guilty, during the mitigation of sentence, I indicated that Iwas a member of APLA, I was trained as a member of APLA and I was a member ofthe PAC as well. CHAIRPERSON Thank you Mr Van Rensberg. MR VAN RENSBERG JUDGE KHAMPEPE Is he seeking amnesty in respectof that, that should be the question? MR VAN RENSBERG Thank you Mr Chairperson,I don't think from the application it seems that the applicant is seeking amnestyfor that and that is part of my question and my cross-questioning, why not,if that is then omitted. JUDGE KHAMPEPE Which paragraph are you referringto, 9(a) "furnish sufficient particulars of the acts associated with apolitical objective in respect of which amnesty is sought", if he is notseeking amnesty, did you expect him to include an offence for which he is notseeking amnesty? MR VAN RENSBERG Yes. JUDGE KHAMPEPE Is that the ambit of yourquestion? MR VAN RENSBERG Yes, yes, in fact I wouldexpect them because obviously my question aims in the direction of the fulldisclosure of the facts, also the motivation on which the attack was based andI will try to show through my cross-examination that these facts are deliberatelyomitted from the application and also from the statements made by the applicant. CHAIRPERSON Proceed. MR VAN RENSBERG Thank you Mr Chairman. ADV BOSMAN MR VAN RENSBERG CHAIRPERSON You may proceed. MR VAN RENSBERG MR THOBEJANE MR VAN RENSBERG Yes, Mr Thobejane, we mayaccept that, the question is why didn't you tell this Commission and why wasn'tit mentioned before during your evidence this morning? MR THOBEJANE The reason I did not tell theCommittee is because I didn't even tell them about the murder, the attemptedmurder, the possession of arms and the possession of - I never explained specifically,I never mentioned to them specifically what I was charged with or convictedwith. MR VAN RENSBERG CHAIRPERSON JUDGE KHAMPEPE MR VAN RENSBERG MR MBANDAZAYO JUDGE KHAMPEPE What is the problem? MR MBANDAZAYO He was answering in all thelanguages. JUDGE KHAMPEPE (Microphone not on) MR MBANDAZAYO The problem is that there isno Interpreter for his language, so he is trying to adopt ... JUDGE KHAMPEPE MR MBANDAZAYO The problem I understand thathe is messing up the tape when he is using all the languages simultaneously. JUDGE KHAMPEPE But does it present any problemin the Translator being able to translate to us? MR MBANDAZAYO No Chairperson. JUDGE KHAMPEPE Yes, that shouldn't be a majorproblem. CHAIRPERSON I think if we proceed, if youhave any difficulty Mr Thobejane, with the language, please indicate immediatelyto Mr Mbandazayo that you've got a problem. MR THOBEJANE JUDGE KHAMPEPE Is that so? MR THOBEJANE Yes. JUDGE KHAMPEPE What Translator do we have,what language is he translating in? MR THOBEJANE Tsonga. JUDGE KHAMPEPE In Tsonga? MR THOBEJANE He is translating in Sotho,but he is not perfect, I am sorry to say that. JUDGE KHAMPEPE Yes. CHAIRPERSON If you could translate in Englishfor Mr Thobejane and then if you do have any difficulty Mr Thobejane, don'tsuffer it, please tell Mr Mbandazayo immediately. MR THOBEJANE Thank you. JUDGE KHAMPEPE The Translator is Tsonga. MS MTANGA Chairperson, if I may come in,the agreement was that he would listen to questions in English and then he wouldanswer is Tswana and then the problem would be, he would be speaking is Tswanabut he would be listening in English, so I don't know what exactly ... JUDGE KHAMPEPE MS MTANGA I think the problem that has beenraised is that when he changes languages ... CHAIRPERSON Yes, but let's find out exactlywhat the problem is, because we can't just debate it here, otherwise we musthave an adjournment, get another translator or whatever, but let's find outfrom Mr Thobejane, what is the difficulty? MR MBANDAZAYO Okay, Chairperson, we agreethat he is going to use English. CHAIRPERSON Thank you. MR VAN RENSBERG CHAIRPERSON The question Mr Thobejane isthat if you take a look at paragraph 12(e) of your application that you completedfor submission to the Commission, the question there is "offence in respectof which found guilty and sentenced, if applicable", and then you haveput in "murder, attempted murder, possession of ammunition, possessionof machine guns, possession of explosives, possession of pistol, etc",now what Mr Van Rensberg is asking is why didn't you put attempted robbery there,that is the question? MR THOBEJANE In my application there is anabbreviation of etc, which it etcetera. CHAIRPERSON It is there. MR MBANDAZAYO Paragraph 12(e), Chairperson,12(e). CHAIRPERSON Yes, Mr Thobejane. MR VAN RENSBERG Pardon, I didn't follow thatanswer. CHAIRPERSON There is etc, etcetera. MR VAN RENSBERG MR THOBEJANE I forgot to. MR VAN RENSBERG What was the sentence thatyou received for this attempted murder conviction? CHAIRPERSON Attempted robbery? MR VAN RENSBERG Attempted robbery, thankyou Mr Chairperson? MR THOBEJANE I don't remember, I am sorry. MR VAN RENSBERG MR THOBEJANE I said so, yes. MR VAN RENSBERG What kind of gun was it? MR THOBEJANE I don't know the kind. CHAIRPERSON Was it a rifle or a pistol ora handgun? MR THOBEJANE It was a pistol, I am sorry. MR VAN RENSBERG When you saw Mr Swanepoelfirst, was this pistol in his hand or in his waist or where was it? MR THOBEJANE On his hand. MR VAN RENSBERG How far were you from MrSwanepoel at that stage, when you apprehended him with a gun as you testified? MR THOBEJANE Some few metres, about 10 to15. CHAIRPERSON Sorry Mr Thobejane, at that stage,was it light or was it still dark? MR THOBEJANE It was light. MR VAN RENSBERG And you commanded him tostand still if I followed your evidence correctly, is that correct? MR THOBEJANE Yes, it is correct. MR VAN RENSBERG What happened to this gunMr Swanepoel had? MR THOBEJANE It fell to the ground and thecamera as well. MR VAN RENSBERG At what stage did it fallto the ground? MR THOBEJANE Because I took him by surpriseyou know, and when I instructed him to halt, I was arising from the flowersand he was terrified, it just fell to the ground. MR VAN RENSBERG Are you saying he let goof this gun and the camera and it fell there on the ground where he stood? MR THOBEJANE Yes, I think Mr Swanepoel wasterrified. MR VAN RENSBERG The question is Mr Thobejane,did the gun and the camera fall to the ground there where he stood? MR THOBEJANE Yes, I said so sir. MR VAN RENSBERG And you immediately thenproceeded to march Mr Swanepoel into the house, is that correct? MR THOBEJANE That is correct. MR VAN RENSBERG What happened to this gunand the camera afterwards? MR THOBEJANE I don't know what happened tothem, but we just left them there. MR VAN RENSBERG Do you know if that gun wasloaded? MR THOBEJANE I won't tell you about thatone. MR VAN RENSBERG Are you expecting this hearingto believe that you left the guy's firearm there in the flowers and marchedhim back into the house? MR THOBEJANE I did not leave the firearmfrom the flowers, from the ground where he was standing. MR VAN RENSBERG Did you leave the firearmthere on the ground? MR THOBEJANE Yes, I did. CHAIRPERSON I suppose we can believe it ifhe was only found guilty of attempted robbery. MR VAN RENSBERG Yes. CHAIRPERSON I mean if it was taken, thenit would have been robbery. MR VAN RENSBERG MR THOBEJANE I would have known if somebodyfrom our Unit had picked it up. MR VAN RENSBERG I put it to you Mr Thobejane,that Mr Swanepoel actually walked out of the house early that morning with medicinefor his chickens and that he had no gun and no camera? MR THOBEJANE I have seen that Mr Swanepoelwas having a gun on his hand, but now if it happens that he was not having agun, I have made a mistake, then I am sorry, but now it happened six years back,if I remember well, so if he says that it was not a gun, I won't argue withhim. CHAIRPERSON I also think when Mr Thobejanewas giving evidence, he didn't say a camera, he said he thought it was a camera,he wasn't sure. MR THOBEJANE Thank you. MR VAN RENSBERG Okay, let's continue whenyou marched Mr Swanepoel back to the house, who went into the house with youand Mr Swanepoel? MR THOBEJANE It is myself, I was the onlyone who marched him into his house, back into the house. MR VAN RENSBERG And the deceased, Mr Princeas you referred to him, what actions did he take when you entered the housewith Mr Swanepoel? MR THOBEJANE Mr Prince ran to the bedroomwindow. MR VAN RENSBERG Did any of the other cadres,except yourself, at any stage enter into the house? MR THOBEJANE MR VAN RENSBERG The question is was the deceasedin the house or outside the house when he shot Mrs Swanepoel? MR THOBEJANE The deceased, you are referringto the late Prince or the late Mrs Swanepoel? MR VAN RENSBERG Yes. CHAIRPERSON Referring to the late Prince,the question was when Modau shot Mrs Swanepoel, was he inside the house or outsidethe house? MR THOBEJANE Right inside the house. MR VAN RENSBERG So you agree with me thatModau entered into the house with yourself? MR THOBEJANE No, no, not with myself, I enteredin the house following Mr Swanepoel, so we did not enter the house at the verysame time, maybe he went first or after myself, but not at the same time. MR VAN RENSBERG Is this one of the instanceswhere you can't exactly remember what happened? MR THOBEJANE I am sorry? MR VAN RENSBERG Can't you exactly rememberif he did go first or if he did go last? MR THOBEJANE Yes, I can say so. MR VAN RENSBERG When you entered the house,what did you order Mr Swanepoel to do? MR THOBEJANE The order was "go intothe house", I did not tell him anything except for that. MR VAN RENSBERG Yes, after you entered intothe house, what did you want him to do? MR THOBEJANE CHAIRPERSON I think what Mr Van Rensbergis getting at Mr Thobejane is, why did you want to take Mr Swanepoel into thehouse at all. MR VAN RENSBERG Thank you Mr Chairman. MR THOBEJANE Oh, I am sorry to say that,I wanted to shoot at him in the house, not outside, because it would, the soundof the gun would make a lot of noise and people around would hear that therewere people who were shooting and I did not, or according to the plan, we didnot want to shoot anyone outside the house, but inside the house, so that thereis no noise. MR VAN RENSBERG I put it to you Mr Thobejane,that Mr Swanepoel was ordered by yourself after you entered the house, to goto his bedroom and you followed him closely with Mr Modau. MR THOBEJANE It wouldn't be possible becausePrince was busy with Mrs Swanepoel. CHAIRPERSON MR THOBEJANE Go to the house, not to thebedroom. MR VAN RENSBERG This bedroom or this roomaccording to your evidence that Mr Swanepoel jumped into when he fled from you,do you agree that is exactly the same room in which Mrs Swanepoel was shot? MR THOBEJANE I don't remember well if itwas the same room, but what I know is that he ran into one of the rooms in thehouse and we tried to open, and open, but we couldn't succeed. MR VAN RENSBERG Did you see Mrs Swanepoelin the house? MR THOBEJANE Mrs Swanepoel, when I see her,it was outside, I was still outside. MR VAN RENSBERG Okay, let's rephrase thequestion, did you see Mrs Swanepoel when you were in the house? MR THOBEJANE In the house I did not see her,I had seen her whilst I was still outside. MR VAN RENSBERG How did you see her whenyou were outside? MR THOBEJANE Through the window. MR VAN RENSBERG MR THOBEJANE I can say so. MR VAN RENSBERG You can say so? MR THOBEJANE Yes. MR VAN RENSBERG MR THOBEJANE Yes. MR VAN RENSBERG MR THOBEJANE If it had happened that way,Mr Prince Modau who shot Mrs Swanepoel, would have also shot Mr Swanepoel, soby the time he shot Mrs Swanepoel, Mr Swanepoel was not in that room. MR MBANDAZAYO I also put it to you that inthat very same main bedroom, that is where the safe is in which the guns andthe cash are kept, or were kept? MR THOBEJANE I don't know about that one. CHAIRPERSON Mr Thobejane, the operation thatnight, was it purely to go and attack the farm, was there at any stage everany talk of repossession? MR THOBEJANE We did not go to the farm torepossess anything, we went there for the shooting or the killing. MR VAN RENSBERG Mr Thobejane, it was partof APLA's policy to repossess the farms by attacking the farmers, is that notcorrect? MR THOBEJANE It is correct, yes. MR VAN RENSBERG So, are you now saying thatin a way you were trying to repossess the farms over the long term, but youwere not ready to repossess the firearms and the cash. MR THOBEJANE JUDGE KHAMPEPE Are you saying that you werein the Offensive Unit? MR THOBEJANE I was in the Offensive Unit,I can say so. JUDGE KHAMPEPE And that there was also aRepossession Unit? MR THOBEJANE Yes, that is correct. JUDGE KHAMPEPE And that within APLA all theseUnits performed different functions? MR THOBEJANE That is correct. JUDGE KHAMPEPE And that your Unit as an OperationUnit was merely to launch an attack and not to repossess? MR THOBEJANE Yes, that is correct, not torepossess, yes. MR VAN RENSBERG MR THOBEJANE Can you repeat your question? MR VAN RENSBERG I want to know if the placewhere you stayed before the attack, is that the same place where you ran toimmediately after the attack? MR THOBEJANE Yes, the same place. MR VAN RENSBERG Where is that place? MR THOBEJANE In Runnymead, it is a village. MR VAN RENSBERG Who is the owner of thatplace? MR THOBEJANE The owner of that house is MrPiet Nociri. MR VAN RENSBERG Do you know anything of thewhereabouts of this Mr Piet Nociri? MR THOBEJANE All I know is that he was arrestedand later discharged because the charges were withdrawn against him and thenI haven't seen him after this incident. MR VAN RENSBERG Was he charged in the samecase as you? MR THOBEJANE Yes. MR VAN RENSBERG In your statement which formspart of the Bundle of documents, you mentioned that the orders were given toyou by the High Commander of the organisation of APLA in the person of Mr LethlapaMpahlela, is that correct? MR THOBEJANE Lethlapa Mpahlela is a memberof the High Command, yes. MR VAN RENSBERG And he was at the time theDirector of Operations as you have testified? MR THOBEJANE The National Director of Operations. MR VAN RENSBERG Do you know what the whereaboutsof this Mr Mpahlela is at the moment? MR THOBEJANE Not at the moment. MR VAN RENSBERG Are you aware of the factthat at one stage Mr Mpahlela was a member of the Parliament of the Republicof South Africa? MR THOBEJANE MR VAN RENSBERG According to your own knowledge,would you confirm that this Mr Mpahlela knew exactly which farm was going tocome under attack and he in fact ordered you to attack that farm? MR THOBEJANE MR VAN RENSBERG So we can at least deductthat he had full knowledge of the operation? MR THOBEJANE I can say so, yes. MR VAN RENSBERG MR THOBEJANE Criminals, we are referringto the apartheid regime who were, which was a specific word used by the UnitedNations because apartheid was a criminal against humanity and the farmers werepart and parcel of the apartheid government as we all know that they had formedthe Commando Units and all those things. MR VAN RENSBERG MR THOBEJANE Can you repeat your question? MR VAN RENSBERG You have now given us aninterpretation of what the United Nations described as criminals, what I wantedto know is did you personally agree with that strange definition of criminals? MR THOBEJANE Do I agree? MR VAN RENSBERG yes? MR THOBEJANE Yes, I agree of course. MR VAN RENSBERG And would your definitionof criminals also include people that kill other people and thereby contravenethe laws of the Republic of South Africa? MR THOBEJANE Can you repeat your question? MR VAN RENSBERG The question is does yourdefinition of criminal, your personal definition, also include people that killsother people and thereby contravening the laws of the Republic of South Africa? MR THOBEJANE Yes, people who contravene thelaws of South Africa, according to the criminal law, they are referred to ascriminals. MR VAN RENSBERG Yes, the question is do youpersonally agree with that definition as well? MR THOBEJANE At that time, I did not knowor understand the criminal law, but now that because I have learnt or went throughsome study materials, I know that they are referred to as criminals, but bythat time I did not know, I am sorry. MR VAN RENSBERG In your statement, or youraffidavit, paragraph 11 you also mentioned that the information you had at thetime, indicated that Mr Swanepoel's farm was a meeting place of right right-wingers,is that correct? MR THOBEJANE It is correct yes. MR VAN RENSBERG Can you give us some indicationwhere this information was coming from? MR THOBEJANE MR VAN RENSBERG So as far as you were concerned,you only gathered that or someone else told you that? MR THOBEJANE The Reconnaissance Team hadcome up with that information. MR VAN RENSBERG Yes, who was this ReconnaissanceTeam? MR THOBEJANE The late Prince himself waspart of it and Donald Mukhawana. MR VAN RENSBERG Donald Mukhawana, that isthe third applicant in this hearing, is that correct? MR THOBEJANE That is correct. JUDGE KHAMPEPE Isn't he the second applicant,oh, in terms of the affidavit? MR MBANDAZAYO In terms of the affidavit Chairperson,it is the second applicant. CHAIRPERSON On the Bundle, he appears asthe third applicant, but it is the same person, one of the applicants in thismatter. MR VAN RENSBERG page 9 of theBundle before this Committee, you said that Piet gave you someinformation that this owner of the Ganula Chicken Farm, obviouslyreferring to Mr Swanepoel, is a white man who did not likeblack people and also that he is an AWB member in the Tzaneen area. MR THOBEJANE Mr Piet Nociri was not thatmuch involved in our activities, and then I don't remember him telling me aboutsuch information. MR VAN RENSBERG Can you remember making thisstatement on the 6th of October 1989? MR THOBEJANE Can I remember doing what? MR VAN RENSBERG MR THOBEJANE MR VAN RENSBERG Is it not your signaturethere on page 11? MR THOBEJANE This one is not my signature. MR VAN RENSBERG MR THOBEJANE No. MR VAN RENSBERG Did you perceive it to beincorrect? MR THOBEJANE MR VAN RENSBERG So it was accepted as correct? MR THOBEJANE By the Unit, yes. MR VAN RENSBERG And by yourself? MR THOBEJANE I am part of the Unit, I cansay. MR VAN RENSBERG MR THOBEJANE I won't agree. MR VAN RENSBERG Why not, do you have anyother information to sustain these allegations? MR THOBEJANE MR VAN RENSBERG Okay, the question is supposethe day before the attack, you received information that this was all false,that Mr Swanepoel has got no affiliations towards the right and that he is notan AWB member, would you still have carried out that attack? MR THOBEJANE Yes, we would still carry outthe attack because he was a farmer. MR VAN RENSBERG MR THOBEJANE He was a farmer. MR VAN RENSBERG Did you attack or plan toattack any black farmers? MR THOBEJANE If they had defended the interestof that government, formed Commando Units, participated in those Units. MR VAN RENSBERG The question is did you planto attack any black farmers as well? MR THOBEJANE No, at that stage, no. MR VAN RENSBERG MR THOBEJANE JUDGE KHAMPEPE MR THOBEJANE Yes, we attacked Mr Swanepoelas a white farmer, as a farmer. MR VAN RENSBERG MR THOBEJANE Can you repeat your question. MR VAN RENSBERG Was it part of APLA's policyat the time, by carrying out these attacks, to persuade or put pressure on thegovernment of the day, to take farms away from the white farmers and give itto the blacks? MR THOBEJANE Yes. MR VAN RENSBERG At the time, do you agreethat Mr Nelson Mandela had been released already, I think three years beforethe attack, is that correct? MR THOBEJANE JUDGE KHAMPEPE MR THOBEJANE Yes. JUDGE KHAMPEPE Yes. MR VAN RENSBERG Yes, and at the time therewas already, I am talking about April 1993, there was already talk about a fulldemocratic election in this country, is that not so? CHAIRPERSON MR VAN RENSBERG MR THOBEJANE By that time, I was in jail,1994, I was in jail. MR VAN RENSBERG Hm, so you never receivedthose instructions? MR THOBEJANE I only knew about them fromsomebody else, not directly from a member of the High Command. MR VAN RENSBERG MR THOBEJANE I won't attack them again, ifhe is asking for me alone. MR VAN RENSBERG What is the instructionsfrom APLA High Command that has reached your ears? MR THOBEJANE Today, PAC is part of the governmentof the day, so I don't think they can issue such instructions again, you know,because they are in Parliament themselves. MR VAN RENSBERG MR THOBEJANE I know him, yes. MR VAN RENSBERG Can you please tell thishearing how you know him and where his whereabouts are at the moment? MR THOBEJANE I don't know where he is atthe moment, but what I know about him is that he is a member of the PAC andthe late Prince had stayed by his house and he was part of our Unit. MR VAN RENSBERG Are you saying that JamesBaloyi was also part of your assault group? MR THOBEJANE Jameson Baloyi? MR VAN RENSBERG Yes? MR THOBEJANE Not part of the assault group. CHAIRPERSON He said that the late Princestayed at his place. MR VAN RENSBERG At his place. MR THOBEJANE Are you referring to TekwaniBaloyi or Jameson Baloyi? JUDGE KHAMPEPE James Baloyi, are there manyJames Baloyi's you know? MR THOBEJANE Jameson Baloyi. CHAIRPERSON Jameson Baloyi. JUDGE KHAMPEPE Jameson Baloyi? MR THOBEJANE I know Jameson Baloyi, Princehad stayed at his house. MR VAN RENSBERG That is in the same regionwhere you also had your hiding place, isn't that correct? MR THOBEJANE Yes. MR VAN RENSBERG And this Jameson Baloyi,in fact knew of the eminent attack? MR THOBEJANE No, he was not in the AttackingUnit. MR VAN RENSBERG Thank you Mr Chairperson,I've got no further questions. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR VAN RENSBERG CHAIRPERSON MS MTANGA No questions, Chairperson. NO CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS MTANGA CHAIRPERSON Mr Mbandazayo, do you have anyre-examination? MR MBANDAZAYO None, Chairperson. NO RE-EXAMINATION BY MR MBANDAZAYO CHAIRPERSON Judge Khampepe, do you have anyquestions? JUDGE KHAMPEPE I have no questions. CHAIRPERSON Adv Bosman? ADV BOSMAN I have no questions, thank youChairperson. CHAIRPERSON Thank you Mr Thobejane, thatconcludes your testimony, you may stand down. MR THOBEJANE Thank you very much, Mr Chairman. WITNESS EXCUSED