amntrans AMNESTY HEARINGS 1999-08-04 PRETORIA 3 JAKOB FRANCOIS KOK https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=53599&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/amntrans/1999/99080205_pre_990804pt.htm MR BOOYENS Jacob Francois Kok, 48 to 56, Chairperson. JACOB FRANCOIS KOK (sworn states) EXAMINATION BY MR BOOYENS Mr Kok, you have your amnesty application before you and it appears on page 48, is that correct? MR KOK That's correct, Chairperson. MR BOOYENS Do you confirm with regard to 7(a) and 7(b), that you were a supporter of the National Party? MR KOK That's correct, Chairperson. MR BOOYENS Once again, Chairperson, may we request that amendment? CHAIRPERSON Yes, I take it there's no objection. Paragraph 7(b) and 7(b) as they appear on page 48 of volume 1, will be amended by deleting the letters "NVT" in both paragraphs and substituting in paragraph (a) with the words National Party or "Nasionale Party" and in 7(b) the word "Ondersteuner". MR BOOYENS Do you confirm the contents of your application? MR KOK I confirm it as correct, Chairperson. MR BOOYENS You have heard the evidence of Mr Wal du Toit? MR KOK I have, Chairperson. MR BOOYENS And do you confirm that you were in the same position as your other colleagues, that you were never able to evaluate the merits of the situation because the background was not available to you? MR KOK That is correct, Chairperson. MR BOOYENS And through the years when you modified arms, you modified these arms with the belief that it would be used in the struggle against the opposition to the then government? MR KOK Yes, Chairperson, I confirm so. MR BOOYENS And in this instance, were you aware that the probable application of the arms would be illegal, but were you at peace that the application would be morally justifiable? MR KOK Yes, Chairperson, the application by the other side. MR BOOYENS And you also apply for amnesty for any offence or delict which might flow from your involvement with this incident, is that correct? MR KOK I do so, Chairperson. MR BOOYENS And you confirm the correctness of the rest of your application? MR KOK Yes, I do, Chairperson. MR BOOYENS Thank you, Chairperson. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR BOOYENS CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Booyens. Mr Hattingh, any questions? MR HATTINGH No, thank you, Mr Chairman. NO QUESTIONS BY MR HATTINGH CHAIRPERSON Mr Cornelius? MR CORNELIUS I have no questions, thank you, Chair. NO QUESTIONS BY MR CORNELIUS CHAIRPERSON Mr Visser? MR VISSER Nor do I, thank you, Mr Chairman. NO QUESTIONS BY MR VISSER CHAIRPERSON Mr Mafora? CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR MAFORA Just one question, Mr Chairperson. Do you perhaps know how many handgrenades were prepared? MR KOK For this specific incident? MR MAFORA Yes. MR KOK No, it's impossible to remember because I could not isolate it over the years which we worked. MR MAFORA Thank you, no further questions. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MAFORA CHAIRPERSON Thank you. Ms Lockhat? MS LOCKHAT No questions, thank you, Chairperson. NO QUESTIONS BY MS LOCKHAT CHAIRPERSON I take it there's not re-examination? MR BOOYENS Not. NO RE-EXAMINATION BY MR BOOYENS CHAIRPERSON Adv Gcabashe, Mr Malan? Thank you, Mr Kok, that concludes your testimony. MR KOK Thank you, Mr Chairman. WITNESS EXCUSED MR BOOYENS Chairperson, with regard to Mr Kobus Kok, on page 30, I don't know if the people are ashamed to say that they were supporters of the National Party, because not one of the applicants do that. I don't know whether you find it necessary to recall him about that, but I would ...(intervention) CHAIRPERSON I don't think it's necessary, we've been explained why we've got this "NVT" instead of the statement that they were supporters of the National Party. I take it as the same. So we'll amend that application as well. On page 30 of volume 1, 7(a) to read "Nasionale Party" and 7(b) to read "Ondersteuner". MR BOOYENS Thank you, Mr Chairman. CHAIRPERSON Thank you, Mr Booyens. That concludes the evidence of the applicants that I appear for, Mr Chairman. May I ask whether there's any objection if those of them - they've got other employment and so on, if those of them who wish to leave may be excused from further attendance? CHAIRPERSON Would there be any objection to that? Certainly, if they wish to leave they may do so. MR BOOYENS Thank you, Mr Chairman. MACHINE SWITCHED OFF