amntrans AMNESTY HEARINGS 1999-08-11 DURBAN 2 A E VERWEY AM5018/97 https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=53606&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/amntrans/1999/9908100903_dbn_990811db.htm ON RESUMPTION CHAIRPERSON Mr Nel? MR NEL Thank you, Mr Chairman. The application in front of you is that of Mr Verwey. It is found in the Cele bundle on page 168, and in front of you I've had placed a short summary of the evidence. If we can possibly mark that Exhibit - I think the next on is G. CHAIRPERSON G, yes. MR NEL Mr Verwey will be testifying in Afrikaans. A E VERWEY (sworn states) CHAIRPERSON Thank you, you may be seated. EXAMINATION BY MR NEL Thank you, Mr Chair. Mr Verwey, you are applying in terms of the Act for amnesty, for your involvement in the abduction of the case that we have heard here, that would be Dion Cele, and any other offence which may emanate therefrom. Is that correct? MR VERWEY Yes, that is correct. MR NEL You have heard the evidence of the previous applicants who have testified and you have also had the opportunity to peruse Exhibit A, do you confirm the correctness of that exhibit as well as the evidence given by the previous applicants regarding your involvement? MR VERWEY Yes, that is correct. MR NEL Mr Verwey, during this incident you were stationed in the SAP at Middelburg. MR VERWEY That is correct. MR NEL You were at the Security Branch, and what was your involvement there? MR VERWEY I was a Warrant Officer for the Security Branch. MR NEL And am I correct in saying that Col Taylor from the Durban Security Branch during this time contacted you to assist in an operation which would take place in Swaziland? MR VERWEY That is correct. MR NEL Now why would he have approached you specifically? MR VERWEY We worked in Swaziland regularly and we knew the roads and the environment very well. MR NEL Now as I've said, you have heard the evidence of the previous applicants and your involvement in this operation was exclusively to offer assistance with a possible, if I may call it, escape route from Swaziland to the RSA. MR VERWEY That is correct. MR NEL You say, or you summarise the incident on page 172 of your application and that this is correct, with the exception that you mentioned in your application that Sam du Preez was also one of the members who was present during this operation. MR VERWEY That is correct. MR NEL Am I correct in saying that during consultation and in consultation with Mr du Preez, it appeared clearly that you were mistaken and that he was not involved at all in this operation? MR VERWEY That is correct. MR NEL Furthermore, you summarise your political objective on page 174 in question 10(a) of your application. Do you confirm the correctness thereof and request that this be incorporated in your application? MR VERWEY Yes. MR NEL Mr Verwey, do you ...(intervention) CHAIRPERSON When you say 174, page 174 ...(intervention) MR NEL Of the bundle. CHAIRPERSON Of the bundle? MR NEL Sorry, Mr Chair. CHAIRPERSON And this is question 10(a), which paragraph, paragraph 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, all of them? MR NEL All of them, Mr Chairperson. That is the ...(intervention) CHAIRPERSON Thank you. MR NEL Did you draw any financial benefit or reward from your participation in this operation? MR VERWEY No, not at all. MR NEL After Cele had been taken from Swaziland, did you participate in any way in the interrogation? MR VERWEY No. MR NEL And you and Labuschagne then returned to your station? MR VERWEY That is correct. MR NEL Mr Chairperson, that is the evidence. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR NEL CHAIRPERSON Thank you. Mr Visser, are there any questions you with to put? MR VISSER I have no questions, thank you, Mr Chairman. CHAIRPERSON Thank you. Is there any cross-examination at all? MS THABETHE No, Mr Chair, thank you. NO QUESTIONS BY MS THABETHE CHAIRPERSON So the limit of your participation is to get this man out of Swaziland and when you got back into the country that was the end of your participation? MR VERWEY That's correct. MR LAX Just one question, Chairperson. Did you have any inkling about what might happen to this man after you left the scene? MR VERWEY No. MR LAX Thank you, Chairperson. ADV BOSMAN I see in paragraph 9 of your application that you have applied for conspiracy to abduct. Where you indeed a member of the planning or were you just told to be there so that you could indicate roads? MR VERWEY We were there because we knew the routes and the environment very well. ADV BOSMAN But you were aware that this person was going to be abducted? MR VERWEY Yes, we knew this before the time. ADV BOSMAN Thank you. Thank you, Mr Chairperson. CHAIRPERSON Yes, thank you very much. MR VERWEY Thank you. WITNESS EXCUSED