amntrans AMNESTY HEARINGS 1999-09-29 PRETORIA 3 HENDRIK CHRISTOFFEL DU PLESSIS https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=53722&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/amntrans/1999/9909271005_pre_990929pt.htm MR VISSER Mr Chairman, may it please you. Visser on record. There appears to be two witnesses, to applicants left, the one is Mr du Plessis, who is ready and available to give evidence now. The other we hope to consult with during lunch time and to present his evidence this afternoon, Mr Chairman. May I hand up to you a statement of the evidence of Mr du Plessis. I understand that would be Exhibit M. Mr du Plessis is available and he is ready to take the oath, Mr Chairman. MR SIBANYONI Your full names please. HENDRIK CHRISTOFFEL DU PLESSIS (sworn states) MR SIBANYONI Sworn in, Chairperson. EXAMINATION BY MR VISSER Thank you, Mr Chairman. Mr du Plessis, you are an applicant in this application with regard to all offences or unlawful deeds which were committed by you in connection with the death of Louis Mohale, Derek Mashobane and Porta Shabangu, is that correct? MR DU PLESSIS Yes, that is correct. MR VISSER You completed an amnesty application form which was submitted to the TRC, and your application appears therein, as my friend, Mr Cornelius will state, folios 162 to 173 and specifically 170 to 171. Is that correct? MR DU PLESSIS Yes. MR VISSER Do you confirm this aspect of your amnesty application, which is of course also subject to what you will submit to the Committee as your evidence here today? MR DU PLESSIS Yes, I confirm this. MR VISSER During the completion of your application you were still in service to the South African Police Services, is that correct? MR DU PLESSIS Yes. MR VISSER What is the position now? MR DU PLESSIS Since then I have been discharged from service for medical reasons. MR VISSER With what rank? MR DU PLESSIS Senior Superintendent. MR VISSER Very well, and we will deal with this in a moment. But at the time of this incident during February 1989, you occupied the rank of Captain, is that correct? MR DU PLESSIS Yes, that is correct. MR VISSER In your amnesty application form, in response to question 7(a) and (b), you responded "Not Applicable". You state that this is not correct, that you were indeed a supporter of the National Party, is that correct? MR DU PLESSIS Yes, that is correct. MR VISSER And you then request that the Honourable Committee would grant you an amendment on page 162, to scrap "Not Applicable" with 7(a) and (b) and to replace this with "National Party" and "Supporter". MR DU PLESSIS That is correct. MR VISSER I move for such an amendment in this case as well, Mr Chairman. As it pleases you. You have studied Exhibit A, do you agree with the evidence which is embodied therein and do you also request that the content thereof be incorporated with your evidence? MR DU PLESSIS That is correct. MR VISSER With the permission of the Honourable Committee, I will lead you from page 2 of Exhibit M, which represents your evidence here before the Committee. It is a summary of your evidence. You state that from January 1988 up to and including approximately August 1989, you were stationed at the C1 Anti-Terrorism Unit at Vlakplaas, with the rank of Captain. MR DU PLESSIS That is correct. MR VISSER You were under the command of Col Eugene de Kock and under the overall command of Brig Willem Schoon. MR DU PLESSIS That is correct. MR VISSER As a subordinate officer you carried out orders given by Col de Kock, as it is put here, strictly according to the need-to-know rule, which you applied. MR DU PLESSIS That is correct. MR VISSER The purpose behind Vlakplaas was to trace terrorists, to arrest them, but also to participate in operations during which persons were eliminated, such as this particular incident. MR DU PLESSIS That is correct. MR VISSER Did you act at all times according to your insights, against the enemy of the government of the Republic of South Africa and in maintenance of the government? MR DU PLESSIS That is correct. MR VISSER You state in paragraph 3, on page 2 of Exhibit M, that during 1989, Col de Kock informed you that an operation was being planned in Swaziland and that the plan was for an askari from Vlakplaas, whose name you can no longer recall, to make contact with persons in Swaziland. Is that correct? MR DU PLESSIS Yes. MR VISSER And firearms which were concealed in false compartments of your vehicles? MR DU PLESSIS That is correct. MR VISSER And in paragraph 6 you have stated according to the best of your recollection, which persons were involved in the operation, they were de Kock, Flores, Britz, Snyders, Lionel Snyman, Tait, Bellingan and Baker and then naturally yourself as well. Isn't that so? MR DU PLESSIS That is correct. MR VISSER You entered Swaziland, did you enter Swaziland via the regular border post? MR DU PLESSIS Yes. MR VISSER Did you enter Swaziland with your own passport? MR DU PLESSIS No, it was a false passport. MR VISSER And where did you obtain this false passport? MR DU PLESSIS We obtained them from the farm. MR VISSER From Vlakplaas? MR DU PLESSIS Yes, that is correct. MR VISSER Now just to cut a long story short, you were a member of the group which apprehended a vehicle containing the activists, in a cul-de-sac which created a semi-circle as I understand Mr de Kock's evidence, a semi-circle in a plantation just off the Mbabane road, is that correct? MR DU PLESSIS That is correct. MR VISSER Were you dropped off there and did the kombi which dropped you off then depart and were you then later picked up once again by this kombi? MR DU PLESSIS That is correct. MR VISSER Would you proceed from paragraph 9 on page 3 and tell the Committee about your recollection of the events which took place? MR DU PLESSIS There was a pile of stones packed next to the road so that the askari could see where he was supposed to stop. I was armed with an AK47 silenced gun. We brought the weapons that we were going to use with us from Vlakplaas. All of us were placed at one side of the road among the trees by Col de Kock, so that we would not shoot each other. After the askari had picked up the group of persons, a radio message came through that they were on their way. I think the message was sent through by Dave Baker. The signal was "Cobra". The activists arrived in the Opel. I cannot recall whether the askari arrived there with a separate vehicle or whether he travelled with them in their Opel, but I think they arrived there in two vehicles. MR VISSER Yes, according to the evidence of most of the other applicants who were present, it would appear that they arrived there in two separate vehicles, not so? MR DU PLESSIS That is correct. MR VISSER Very well. MR DU PLESSIS At the pile of stones the askaris stopped and the Opel also stopped. We then fired at the passengers of the Opel. I fired, but my gun stalled. I don't know how many rounds I fired before this happened. It is possible that I may have shot someone. There was no lighting, except for the lights of the vehicle in which the group travelled. We were close enough to the vehicle to be able to see him. MR VISSER Did you aim specifically at persons or did you aim at the vehicle, at places where you would have expected to find people seated? MR DU PLESSIS That is correct. MR VISSER The latter-mentioned? MR DU PLESSIS Yes, that is correct. MR VISSER Very well. MR DU PLESSIS I cannot say for how long the shooting lasted, but it was over reasonably quickly. Seeing as it was dark I could see how many persons were in the vehicle. I also didn't go and look inside the vehicle. After the shooting we left the scene. The vehicle was not searched. We left the scene as quickly as possible. That night we tried to cross the border to the RSA, because we were afraid of the Swaziland Police. However, we did not succeed in this. We stayed over at one or other form of accommodation which I cannot recall the name of, I just know that there were small wooden cottages in which we stayed over after the incident. Early the following morning we left Swaziland by means of the same border post. A few days after the incident, Brig Willem Schoon, our overall commander, visited Vlakplaas. He and Col de Kock discussed the matter and I drew the inference that he knew about the matter. However I do not know whether the order for the operation came from him. I am inferring however, that this was indeed the case because he would have to approve such operations, as well as the financial aspects thereof. MR VISSER Yes, well it is our evidence that this was indeed the case. MR DU PLESSIS Yes. MR VISSER Please continue. MR DU PLESSIS I do not know the person who were shot dead. I also do not know how many persons were in the vehicle. I cannot recall that we were ever told why we were supposed to shoot these persons dead. The inference that I drew is that they were terrorists who wanted to enter the RSA. As I can recall when I compiled my amnesty application, the circumstances which were conveyed to me were that Col de Kock had received information from Col Willem Coetzee, that an informer had made contact with persons who were in Swaziland, who wished to infiltrate the RSA. MR VISSER Just somewhat slower please. On page 170 of your application in the bundle, under "Incident 1" you stated that Col de Kock informed you that he had received information from Willem Coetzee, and you state "He also said that Coetzee was no longer concerned regarding the informer and that we could simply eliminate him or her along with the others." That appears in your amnesty application. Now you would agree with me that based upon the evidence that has been heard by the Committee, there was no informer who was involved in this matter. What do you say about this remark that you have made in your application? MR DU PLESSIS I concede that I was mistaken regarding that. MR VISSER That it is clearly not of application to this particular case? MR DU PLESSIS Correct. MR VISSER Please proceed. MR DU PLESSIS I now understand, in terms of the evidence given by Brig Schoon and Oosthuizen and Col W Coetzee, that there were other facts and backgrounds which formed the basis for this incident and the reason why these persons had to be eliminated. I have no recollection that I was informed at the time of the incident, regarding the facts and considerations to which the aforementioned officers have referred to in their evidence. I request humbly that their evidence regarding the facts and the background, be incorporated with mine. MR VISSER Then on page 5 you have summarised your motivation for your participation in the incident. Could you explain this to the Committee. MR DU PLESSIS In motivation of my participation in these actions, I must firstly mention that I acted consistently in the execution of my duties in the Service of the SAP as I understood it and in execution of orders which I received from senior officers. During the struggle of the past, during which thousands were killed and injured and property was damaged by supporters of the liberation movements, and when the government was under threat and chaos and disorder threatened, it was sufficient motivation for us in the Security Branch to know that action would be taken against members or supporters of a liberation movement. MR VISSER And is that how you regarded these persons who were eliminated that evening? MR DU PLESSIS Correct. MR VISSER Very well. MR DU PLESSIS The struggle that we waged was a political struggle and everything that I did, I did in the execution of my duties as a policeman in protection of human life and property and in maintenance of the constitutional dispensation of the time and in support of the National Party and to prevent that the land fall into chaos and anarchy. After all the changes that have taken place in our country since then, one has to wonder whether it was all worth it. The incident haunts me and I have regretted it much. However, I was in a situation where I could not refuse to participate in such an operation or to disregard such orders of a senior officer. MR VISSER Yes, then you continue to refer to the pressure which was exerted on members of the Security Branch by head office and the leadership of the time and that you believed that these actions that you have referred to were expected of you to execute. MR DU PLESSIS That is correct. MR VISSER And with the exception of your regular remuneration, you were in no way rewarded or compensated for your participation in these actions? MR DU PLESSIS No. MR VISSER Did you act out of any personal malice or vengeance towards these persons on this evening? MR DU PLESSIS No. MR VISSER And you then request amnesty for your share in the conspiracy to murder these three persons as well as their murder, and all other offences or unlawful acts which were committed by you in the course of this incident. MR DU PLESSIS That is correct. MR VISSER Thank you, Chairperson. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR VISSER MR HATTINGH Hattingh, Mr Chairman, I have no questions, thank you. NO QUESTIONS BY MR HATTINGH MR BOOYENS Booyens, no questions, Mr Chairman. NO QUESTIONS BY MR BOOYENS MR CORNELIUS Cornelius, Mr Chairman, I've got no questions thank you. NO QUESTIONS BY MR CORNELIUS MR ROSSOUW Rossouw, Mr Chairman, no questions. NO QUESTIONS BY MR ROSSOUW MR NEL Nel, Mr Chairman, I've got no questions. NO QUESTIONS BY MR NEL MR BOTHA Botha, Mr Chairman, no questions. NO QUESTIONS BY MR BOTHA MR VAN HEERDEN Van Heerden, Mr Chairman, no questions. NO QUESTIONS BY MR VAN HEERDEN ADV STEENKAMP No questions, thank you Mr Chairman. NO QUESTIONS BY ADV STEENKAMP MR SIBANYONI I've got not questions, Mr Chairman. ADV SANDI No questions, Chair. CHAIRPERSON We've been told that you all went to a disco that evening, do you remember that? MR DU PLESSIS Yes, I have heard that. CHAIRPERSON Do you remember going to it? MR DU PLESSIS We were a few people who had a quick drink or cooldrink there, Chairperson. MR VISSER No re-examination, thank you, Mr Chairman. If the witness might be excused under the normal conditions. CHAIRPERSON Certainly, granted. WITNESS EXCUSED MR VISSER Mr Chairman, as alluded to before, I have not consulted with the last witness to give evidence before you. Under the circumstances, would it please you to take your adjournment now and hopefully we'll be ready when you start again, to lead his evidence. CHAIRPERSON We'll adjourn now till 2 o'clock. MR VISSER Thank you, Mr Chairman. COMMITTEE ADJOURNS ON RESUMPTION CHAIRPERSON ... first, or are we going to deal with Mr Visser's ... MR CORNELIUS ADDRESSES COMMITTEE RE D J BRITZ I shall be brief with Mr Britz, as far as Mr Britz is concerned. I don't know if Mr Visser has had to opportunity to look at the affidavit. MR VISSER It's fine. MR CORNELIUS Thank you. I've tabled all the documentation with the Committee. Thank you, Mr Chairman. Mr Chairman, you will note I've filed an affidavit setting out the circumstances and I've also filed and successfully traced the complete amnesty application under 3745, which is supposed to be part of the documentation before the Committee, which I've annexured and then I've done a short resume of the evidence which he would have given here, which I think you'll find in Annexure D, setting out his political motives and everything in detail. And you will also note there's a further affidavit which I filed upon the request of the Committee, to indicate which incidents the various applicants were involve in, where I also reflected that he was in fact involved in the cross-border raid, but the date unfortunately is not exactly the correct date. That's the way he remembered it. I've finally then annexed Annexure E, a medical certificate from a clinical psychologist which indicates that he's under severe treatment at the moment and he will be hospitalised on the 4th of October. CHAIRPERSON In a few days. MR CORNELIUS I'd be pleased if the Committee could accept this as part of his evidence ...(indistinct) testified before. Thank you, Mr Chairman. CHAIRPERSON So we now enrol this application? MR CORNELIUS I'd be pleased if the matter could be enrolled and this be read into the record as part of his testimony. Thank you, Mr Chairman. CHAIRPERSON Alright. MR CORNELIUS Can I hand up the original signed document? Thank you, Mr Chairman. MACHINE SWITCHED OFF MR CORNELIUS That would be Exhibit N, thank you to my learned colleague, Mr Visser. Thank you, Mr Chair.