amntrans AMNESTY HEARINGS 1999-10-04 PRETORIA 5 SCHALK JAN VISSER https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=53732&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/amntrans/1999/9909271005_pre_991004pt.htm MS VAN DER WALT Chairperson, with your permission we call applicant Mr S J Visser. ADV DE JAGER Your full names. SCHALK JAN VISSER (sworn states) EXAMINATION BY MS VAN DER WALT Mr Visser, your amnesty application is embodied in the bundle before the Honourable Committee and the official form appears from page 142 to 144 and the incident is from page 145 to 146, and the political motivation and background is annexure B, from page 147 to page 154, is that correct? MR VISSER That is correct, Chairperson. MS VAN DER WALT And you have already previously on many occasions given evidence before the Committee, is that correct? MR VISSER That is correct, Chairperson. MS VAN DER WALT And you have also studied and confirmed the contents of Exhibit A, which serves before the Committee. MR VISSER That is correct, Chairperson. MS VAN DER WALT During this incident, Mr Visser, what was your rank? MR VISSER At that stage I was still a Colonel, Chairperson. MS VAN DER WALT And where were you stationed? MR VISSER I served as Divisional Commander of the Division Eastern Transvaal of the Security Branch. MS VAN DER WALT You have also heard the evidence of the other applicants here today. There is one aspect in your application as well as the applicants from Eastern Transvaal, which mentions that this incident had taken place in 1987 and you have now heard that the other applicants mention 1986, what do you say with regard to the date? MR VISSER I would like to put it, Chairperson, that I may be mistaken in my date and I accept it as the members who had previously given evidence stated it. MS VAN DER WALT When you drew up the application, did you and the other applicants decide together that it may have possibly been in 1987 and you were not certain? MR VISSER Yes, Chairperson, these were only members attached to Security Branch Eastern Transvaal who collectively applied and during that action the date was decided upon. MS VAN DER WALT Mr Visser, you became involved firstly during the meeting at Middelburg, as has been led here? MR VISSER That's correct, Chairperson. MS VAN DER WALT And at this meeting, is it correct that Mr Deetlefs who is also an applicant, elaborated on the acts of terror in Eastern Transvaal? MR VISSER That is correct, Chairperson. And certain of the information which was supplied by Soweto was confirmed from Division Eastern Transvaal's side. MS VAN DER WALT During the period of 1986, what was the situation with regard to the acts of terror in Eastern Transvaal? MR VISSER We were plagued by landmine incidents, limpet mine incidents and then general acts of terror in the vicinity of Eastern Transvaal/Swaziland border Chairperson. MS VAN DER WALT According to the information which was supplied to you, from where did these instructions come? The attacks in the Eastern Transvaal. MR VISSER Intelligence information indicated that the Transvaal machinery which operated from Swaziland, were responsible for the planning and execution of these attacks, Chairperson. MS VAN DER WALT I note in you application on page 145, paragraph 2, you make mention that it was necessary that action be taken against Pantsu because information indicated that the ANC had planned a black Xmas for South Africa. Was it only against Pantsu, or what is your recollection? MR VISSER It was not exclusively against Pantsu, it was against the Transvaal machinery of which he was a member and it was general propaganda that during that time the ANC, that period being Xmas, that the ANC had planned intensive attacks, Chairperson. MS VAN DER WALT As the other applicants have testified, you went to the border post, is that at Oshoek? MR VISSER That is correct, Chairperson. MS VAN DER WALT You never crossed the border, is that correct? MR VISSER No, I did not, Chairperson. MS VAN DER WALT And is it correct that after the incident a report was made to you and the other applicants who did not cross the border? MR VISSER That is correct, Chairperson. MS VAN DER WALT You also then request that the other applicants' applications be incorporated in your application and you confirm this. MR VISSER Yes, I make such a request, Chairperson. MS VAN DER WALT Did you believe when you participated in the planning with the other members, that this fell within the course of your duties ...? MR VISSER I was convinced, Chairperson, that it was my task among others, as a member of the Security Branch and member of the Security Forces, to combat the revolutionary onslaught against the Republic of South Africa and I believe that I acted correctly. MS VAN DER WALT Did you receive any personal benefit from this incident? MR VISSER Not at all, Chairperson. I did not receive any reward for my part. MS VAN DER WALT You then apply for any offences or delicts which might flow from this action. MR VISSER I do so, Chairperson. MS VAN DER WALT Thank you, Mr Chairperson. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS VAN DER WALT MR HATTINGH Hattingh, Mr Chairman, I have no questions, thank you. NO QUESTIONS BY MR HATTINGH MR ROSSOUW Rossouw, Mr Chairman, no questions. CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR PRINSLOO Prinsloo, Chairperson, a few questions. Mr Visser, Mr Deetlefs, who is your co-applicant was the Branch Commander of Ermelo. MR VISSER That is correct, Chairperson. MR PRINSLOO And he was tasked with the collection of intelligence from Swaziland, which was close to Ermelo? MR VISSER That is correct, Chairperson. MR PRINSLOO And he had intelligence and information about what was on-going in Swaziland? MR VISSER That's correct, Chairperson. MR PRINSLOO And with regard to Mr Pienaar, your co-applicant, he was the Branch Commander of Piet Retief? MR VISSER That is correct, Chairperson. MR PRINSLOO And in his circumstances he also primarily worked with Swaziland activities? MR VISSER That's correct, Chairperson. MR PRINSLOO No further questions, thank you, Chairperson. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR PRINSLOO MR VISSER Visser, Mr Chairman, no questions thank you. NO QUESTIONS BY MR VISSER ADV STEENKAMP No questions, thank you, Mr Chairman. NO QUESTIONS BY ADV STEENKAMP MR SIBANYONI I've got no questions, Mr Chairman. MR VISSER Thank you, Mr Chairman. WITNESS EXCUSED MS VAN DER WALT My following applicant is Mr van Dyk. MR VISSER ...(indistinct - no microphone) so well with the witnesses, you gave us an half an hour off, Mr Chairman. MR SIBANYONI Your full names, Mr van Dyk. CHAIRPERSON Are you requesting that we adjourn now, Mr Visser? MR VISSER Mr Chairman, it would certainly assist me, I'm feeling rather poorly right at the moment, Mr Chairman, and we have been doing well. CHAIRPERSON ...(indistinct - no microphone) MR VISSER No, we'll definitely finish tomorrow, Mr Chairman, it seems. I'm indebted to you, Mr Chairman. CHAIRPERSON We'll now adjourn till nine thirty tomorrow morning. COMMITTEE ADJOURNS