amntrans AMNESTY HEARINGS 1999-10-25 PRETORIA 9 JOHANNES PETRUS ROODT MURDER OF ERNST RAMANGU https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=53786&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/amntrans/1999/99101228_pre_991025.htm CHAIRPERSON Good morning to you all. I trust you had a restful weekend. Today we will be restarting with the applications of the following persons - Mr Johannes Petrus Roodt, Mr Sarel du Plessis Crafford who is late and Mr Daniël Jakobus Kruger. This incident is called the murder of Ernst Ramangu, source 406. The Panel that will sit to hear applications in relation to this incident comprises myself, Judge Sisi Khampepe, on my right, Mr Motata and on my left, Mr Malan. Will the legal representatives appearing on behalf of the applicants kindly place their names for the record? MR DU PLESSIS Yes, thank you Madam Chair, Roelof du Plessis. I am acting on instructions of Strydom Brits Attorneys, and I act for Mr Roodt and Mr Crafford. May I just place on record that Mr Crafford is deceased and in respect of his application, I will stand by his written application. CHAIRPERSON Thank you. MS VAN DER WALT I am Louisa van der Walt, I am representing Mr D.J. Kruger. MR DU PLESSIS Thank you Madam Chair, may I start the proceedings by calling Mr Roodt? CHAIRPERSON Yes. JOHANNES PETRUS ROODT (sworn states) MR MALAN Thank you, you may be seated. EXAMINATION BY MR DU PLESSIS Thank you Madam Chair. Mr Roodt, this incident has been set out in Bundle 1, from page 439 and continues to page 455, is that correct? MR ROODT Yes, that is correct. That is correct Chairperson. MR DU PLESSIS Do you confirm the contents of those pages as correct? MR ROODT Yes, that is correct. MR DU PLESSIS The incident itself begins at page 450? MR ROODT That is correct. MR DU PLESSIS Very well, and do you also confirm the correctness of what appears on page 450? MR ROODT Yes, that is correct. MR DU PLESSIS Very well, then I would just like to ask you during the assault which is referred to in the second paragraph, was Ramangu assaulted? MR ROODT Yes, that is correct. MR DU PLESSIS Very well. Do you know whether Capt Crafford obtained any information with regard to Ramangu and his status as a double agent? MR ROODT Yes, that is correct. Capt Crafford told me that upon enquiry he had established that he was a double agent and a trained MK member. MR DU PLESSIS And Capt Crafford had previously told you that he had obtained information about Ramangu from Mandla? MR ROODT That is correct. MR DU PLESSIS Thank you Madam Chair, no further questions. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR DU PLESSIS CHAIRPERSON When you say that Ramangu was assaulted, was this assault done during your presence? MR ROODT Yes. CHAIRPERSON You can answer me in Afrikaans. MR ROODT Yes, Chairperson. CHAIRPERSON And how long was he assaulted, do you know, can you estimate? MR ROODT Chairperson, for approximately as far as I saw, approximately one and a half hours. CHAIRPERSON Yes, and how was he assaulted? MR ROODT His arms were turned or twisted, he was slapped a few times, but furthermore nothing serious. CHAIRPERSON Was the late Mr Crafford the only one who assaulted him? MR ROODT No Chairperson, I also participated. CHAIRPERSON What was the nature and the extent of your participation? MR ROODT I slapped him a few times and twisted his arm. That was all. CHAIRPERSON Is it not your intention to apply for amnesty for having assaulted Mr Ramangu? MR DU PLESSIS Yes, Madam Chair, I am sorry, I was coming to that. I will seek leave to include that in the list of incidents. CHAIRPERSON Yes. You had omitted however Mr du Plessis, to lead this evidence. MR DU PLESSIS Yes, I did so, but in any event, the murder, the question of the murder Madam Chair, would have included the assault as well. CHAIRPERSON The assault? MR DU PLESSIS So it is not really necessary to make the application, but I will do so if you require. CHAIRPERSON Yes. Mr Roodt, you also mentioned that some sleeping pills or a cold drink laced with sleeping pills was given to Mr Ramangu. Were you present when this was done? MR ROODT I was present when Capt Crafford gave him or offered him a cold drink which had apparently contained a tranquilliser, and after a while he fell asleep. CHAIRPERSON Yes. Were you told by Mr Crafford that the cold drink had been laced with tranquillisers? MR ROODT That is correct. CHAIRPERSON This concludes your evidence, Mr du Plessis? MR DU PLESSIS That is correct Madam Chair. CHAIRPERSON Ms van der Walt? MS VAN DER WALT No questions, thank you Chairperson. NO QUESTIONS BY MS VAN DER WALT CHAIRPERSON Thank you. Mr Malan, do you have any questions to put to Mr Roodt? MR MALAN I have no questions, thank you. CHAIRPERSON Mr Motata? ADV MOTATA I have none, Madam Chair. CHAIRPERSON Mr Roodt, you are excused as a witness. WITNESS EXCUSED