amntrans AMNESTY HEARINGS 1999-10-25 PRETORIA 9 IGNATIUS COETZEE https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=53791&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/amntrans/1999/99101228_pre_991025.htm MR VISSER Chairperson, may I call Gen Ignatius Coetzee? CHAIRPERSON Yes. Exhibit F? MR VISSER Exhibit F Chairperson. IGNATIUS COETZEE (sworn states) MR MALAN Thank you. EXAMINATION BY MR VISSER Thank you Chairperson. Mr Coetzee, your are an applicant for amnesty in the conspiracy and the attempt to murder certain persons which you have mentioned in Exhibit F in Botswana, is that correct? MR COETZEE That is correct. MR VISSER Your application we find in Bundle 2 on page 127 to 139 where you deal with the incident from page 135 to 136, is that correct? MR COETZEE That is correct. MR VISSER Do you confirm the contents of your amnesty application, subject to the evidence you will deliver here today? MR COETZEE That is correct. MR VISSER In paragraph 7(a) and (b) of your application, you have said on questions with regard to whether you belonged to a political organisation and if so, if what capacity, you replied "not applicable", is that so that that is incorrect and that you were a supporter of the National Party? MR COETZEE That is so. MR VISSER May I again apply for that amendment, paragraph 7(a) and (b)? CHAIRPERSON The amendment is hereby granted. MR VISSER Thank you Chairperson. You have referred to Exhibit A, have you studied that document and studied it comprehensively? MR COETZEE Yes, I have. MR VISSER Do you concur and do you confirm the contents thereof and that you request that it be made applicable to you? MR COETZEE Yes, I do. MR VISSER And finally do you confirm the contents of Exhibit F which serves before the Committee which is in regard to your evidence, with regard to this incident? MR COETZEE That is correct. MR VISSER In 1986/1987 is it correct that you were the Divisional Commander of Soweto Security Branch? MR COETZEE That is correct. MR VISSER And the persons who as we have heard this morning, served under your command in the Intelligence Unit was Louis de Jager, Willem Coetzee ... MR MALAN Mr Visser, with great respect, you are leading the witness viva voce, he has already confirmed all of this. We certainly do not have to hear this again. You have confirmed, I cannot see anything here that digresses from the main application, you can just confirm as far as we are concerned. MR VISSER Do you confirm Exhibit F in its totality? MR COETZEE I do so Chairperson. MR VISSER Thank you Chairperson. CHAIRPERSON If you so wish to highlight certain matters, Mr Visser, you are leading him in-chief, you may proceed to do so, however if you feel that what you would have wanted to lead him on, is already contained in his affidavit that is before us ... MR VISSER Yes, Chairperson, the only little aspect that makes me a bit uncomfortable is the fact that he was the Divisional Commander of Soweto and he must have taken a decision fairly near the top in regard to this operation, and I would have thought that I would have, you would have been interested just to know how he saw his position at that time, vis-a-vis the taking of the decision or if at all it was applicable to him. CHAIRPERSON Yes. MR VISSER Because there was another Divisional Commander, Brig Loots in the Western Transvaal and some decisions had to be taken and orders given and I thought that perhaps I should just lead his evidence briefly on that issue. CHAIRPERSON Thank you. As I listen to you, you seem to think that that is highly relevant. You may proceed to lead his evidence in relation to that particular aspect of his evidence. MR VISSER Yes, thank you Chairperson. Gen Coetzee, we have now heard that according to the insets of the other persons who have testified now, it was actually a Special Force's operation? MR COETZEE That is correct. MR VISSER Was that also your impression? MR COETZEE That is correct. MR VISSER Instructions were given according to Col de Jager, by you to him which he conveyed to Olifant, Pretorius and Coetzee below him, to act in a supporting capacity to Special Forces. Did you convey those instructions as such? MR COETZEE Yes, I did. MR VISSER And chiefly, why did you decide to do this? Would you please tell us how it came about that you passed on those instructions? MR COETZEE This was primarily from, because of a request from the same unit that they be assisted by our Intelligence Unit. MR VISSER And Brig Loots was the Commissioner Commander of the Western Transvaal, was he in the same position as you? MR COETZEE That is correct Chairperson. MR VISSER Thank you Chairperson. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR VISSER MR MALAN Thank you Mr Visser. CHAIRPERSON Mr Lamey, do you want to put any questions to Gen Coetzee? MR LAMEY I've got no questions, thank you. NO QUESTIONS BY MR LAMEY CHAIRPERSON Mr Steenkamp? ADV STEENKAMP No questions, thank you Madam Chair. NO QUESTIONS BY ADV STEENKAMP CHAIRPERSON Mr Malan? MR MALAN No questions, thank you Chairperson. CHAIRPERSON Mr Motata? ADV MOTATA None, Chairperson. CHAIRPERSON You must be smiling Gen Coetzee? I take it Mr Visser, you don't need to re-examine, because there is nothing to re-examine him upon? MR VISSER No thank you Chairperson. NO RE-EXAMINATION BY MR VISSER CHAIRPERSON Yes. Gen Coetzee, you are hereby excused as a witness. WITNESS EXCUSED