amntrans AMNESTY HEARINGS 1999-11-02 EAST LONDON 2 XOLISA MKONWANA AM5265/97 https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=53834&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/amntrans/1999/99110103_el_991102.htm CHAIRPERSON The Panel is the same as the last matter and two of the representatives are the same. I would like the third representative to just mention his name on record for the purposes of the record. MR MALUSI Thank you Mr Chairperson, I am Tembegi Malusi, I am representing the victims, that is the Paka family and the Cakwe family. CHAIRPERSON And the? MR MALUSI Cakwe. Thank you Mr Chairperson. CHAIRPERSON Mr Mkonwana, what language would you prefer to use? MR MKONWANA I'm going to use language your Honour. CHAIRPERSON Are you comfortable with the English? MR MKONWANA I am as free in English as I am in Xhosa, your Honour. CHAIRPERSON Should at any time during the course of your evidence you feel you want to change, feel free to do so, just inform us that you intend to do so. XOLISA MKONWANA (sworn states) EXAMINATION BY MR NOMPOZOLO Thank you Mr Chairperson. Mr Chairperson, there is an affidavit prepared for the applicant and the applicant has indicated that he is fluent in English. He is going to read from paragraph 3 of the affidavit for the record which will basically be the basis of his evidence. Thank you. MR MKONWANA: "I was born on the 11th February 1969 at Queenstown. I'm the first born of four children. My father passed away in 1988, he died of natural causes. My mother is still alive. I started schooling at Stimoto Machabo Lower Primary School from 1976 to 1979. I did Sub standard A in 1976 and Standard 2 in 1979. From 1980 to 1982 I attended school at ...(indistinct) Primary School where I attended Standard 3 to Standard 5. In 1983 I attended school at Khanya Senior Secondary School where I passed Standard 6. I then proceeded to Standard 7 but I could not complete my studies due to my involvement in the struggle against apartheid and the homelands system. Sada was in the former Ciskei. Khanya Senior Secondary School fell under the then Ciskeian Homeland Government. In Ciskei there was an undemocratic government, all liberation movements were banned. At school where I was at then there was no student representative council, the principal was autocratic, towing the line of the homeland government. Myself and other comrades then took an initiative of addressing the problems at school due to the oppressive laws that prevailed at the time, we could not operate normally and our arrest and detention became inevitable. We then became very sensitive to the comrades who betrayed us or people who were working with the homelands system or apartheid government for that matter. I may mention that at that stage I was only fourteen years old. Due to pressure of the police and the homeland government I was forced at that age to leave school. I then dedicated my life to the struggle of liberation of the oppressed masses of South Africa. It became very difficult for us to join a political organisation. We then decided to operate as a student organisation or a youth organisation. Subsequently, other organisations, there came about organisations such as Sada Youth Congress and Sada Residents Association. We decided to also form the latter organisation because we realised that we could not pursue alone without the involvement of our parents. We recruited elderly people to the Sada Residents Association but we kept the two organisations separate although the goal was won but the strategy was not going to be the same. The youth organisation was more militant than the residents organisation. These were just structures but we were not keeping any records of what was happening due to fear of evidence in court against us so we just operated on the basis of retaining the events on our minds. We are aligning ourselves to the United Democratic Front referred hereunder as UDF. We were still planning to affiliate the UDF but most of the leadership was arrested and detained for burning down a rent office and a building belonging to the Department of Public Works. I was involved in these incidents of arson, I was amongst the people who were arrested for arson and I was detained for 3 days and was discharged without being formally charged. There was a meeting on the 24th April 1986. The reason why I know this date precisely is because on the statement on Mrs L S Paka it is alleged that Vuyise Paka was killed on that day. The meeting was held at 426 Sada Township. The meeting was about the decline on the membership of the organisation. It was also raised in that meeting that there was no action. In the meeting somebody started a song which that said there was an informer nearby. In Xhosa it means "nganeno impimpi". Then we were not far from Nomboniso Cakwe's place, there were about a hundred people attending that meeting but there were also about 400 people who were in the street busy toyi-toyiing. On a previous occasion, but I cannot recall the date where a group of about 50 people, when we went to Nomboniso's place and we informed here that we were aware that she was a police informer. We asked her to refrain from being an informer. The following day some of our comrades were arrested and beaten up by the police so we realised that she had informed the police and as such, once more, sold us out. As stated on paragraph 5 above, we then divided ourselves into two groups and one groups was to have been in charge of the south end section of the township and another the northern part. The mood then was that we would clean up the township of informers, all informers would be killed. I was part of the northern part, we moved across and crossed the street known as Big Street and we met a station commander who shot at us. He then ran to look after his house which was in jeopardy at the time. He did not hit anyone of our group. We the other group, that is the northern part of the group, went to Mr Mpetega's house who was believed to be an informer. There was a group which stopped cars and they were asking for petrol and petrol bombs were made. We went to Mr Mpetega's place. There I threw stones but I kept my petrol bombs. Then we then proceeded to D M Digane's house who was a minister in the homeland government at the time. We petrol bombed his house, it was burnt down. We then went to a soldier's house who was a comrade and we hid there. I knew that Nomboniso was to be killed and that Mr Andrew Parka was to be killed as well. I was not part of the group that killed them" ...(intervention) CHAIRPERSON How did you know they were going to be killed? MR MKONWANA I knew that they were going to be killed because there was a circulation of a rumour around the township that they must be dealt with once and for all especially after that occasion when we went to Nomboniso. CHAIRPERSON Do you know when that decision was taken, the date? MR MKONWANA The date of the decision, it was not taken on that particular day of that meeting, we did not say anything about that on that day but on the day that we went to warn Nomboniso at her house it was then decided and that the day of the meeting, it was ostensibly to talk about the decline in the organisation but ostensibly what was apparently going to be done was to deal with them once and for all. CHAIRPERSON Were you in that meeting? MR MKONWANA Yes I was in that meeting. CHAIRPERSON Were you party to that decision to kill her? MR MKONWANA Yes I was, yes. CHAIRPERSON And Mr Paka? MR MKONWANA Paka as well, I was part of that. CHAIRPERSON So while you may not have been in the group that actually done it, you were part of the decision making process? MR MKONWANA I beg your pardon? CHAIRPERSON You were part of deciding that that must be done? MR MKONWANA Yes I was part of the decision to do that. CHAIRPERSON You can't remember the date of that meeting? MR MKONWANA The date of the meeting was the 24th but the day on which it was initially decided that they must be dealt with once and for all was on that day when we went to warn Nomboniso. CHAIRPERSON Let's get something straight just to cut out any misunderstanding. I'm talking about the day it was decided that they must be killed. MR MKONWANA Your Honour, it was decided on the day when we went to Nomboniso's place. CHAIRPERSON What date would that be? MR MKONWANA As I've already indicated I cannot recall the date. Paragraph 6, line number 1. CHAIRPERSON It was prior to April the 24th? MR MKONWANA It's prior to that date. CHAIRPERSON Do you know where, well where was the decision made? MR MKONWANA The decision on that day we went to Nomboniso's house and when we moved out it was decided that if she has not yet, right now, we are going to deal with her once and for all, that was the language that was used but after that ...(intervention) CHAIRPERSON What was meant by that? MR MKONWANA The? CHAIRPERSON Once and for all? MR MKONWANA Once and for all? Well I presume once and for all meant that she was going to be killed because that was the way we were dealing with these issues at that particular time. CHAIRPERSON: And eventually it did happen like that? MR MKONWANA And eventually it did happen and it was reinforced by the fact that our comrades who had been there warning her with us were arrested on the following day and they were taken to the police and tortured at the police station and when they came back they informed us that we were told that we had been taken by the police because we had been at Nomboniso's house to warn her. CHAIRPERSON Okay, thank you. MR MKONWANA "I was not part of the group that killed them but I was aware that they would be killed that evening. It was said in a group of about 500 that Nomboniso and Mr Paka would be killed. I was then informed on the 25th April 1986 that they were both killed on the 24th April 1986. On subsequent days people were arrested, I was arrested about two days thereafter and I was kept in detention without being charged, I was released on the 6th May 1986. I then moved to Mdantsane on the 8th May 1986. I then moved to Cape Town where I'm presently residing. I apply for amnesty for the killing of Nomboniso Cakwe and also L Vuyiso Paka because I associated myself with the people who were going to kill them. I endorsed their killing because it formed part of our struggle against the homelands system. We believed that they were informers and they were selling us to the homelands system. I also apply for amnesty for the burning down of the rent office and also the building of the Department of Public Works. I was part of the group that burnt these two buildings. These were burnt because they were used in furthering the interests of the then homelands system. I also apply for amnesty for burning Mr Mpeteka's house and that of Mr T M Digane." That is all, Chairperson, thank you. CHAIRPERSON Sada, is that a village in the vicinity of Whittlesea or where is that? MR MKONWANA It's a township, Chairperson. CHAIRPERSON Of Whittlesea? MR MKONWANA Of Whittlesea, that is correct. CHAIRPERSON Yes, Mr Nompozolo? MR NOMPOZOLO Thank you, that is the evidence of the applicant, Mr Chairperson. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR NOMPOZOLO CHAIRPERSON Were you charged eventually with this, I know you say you were arrested but released thereafter? MR MKONWANA I was never charges on all these offences. CHAIRPERSON On any of these offences? MR MKONWANA On any of these but I was arrested time and again but I was never charged. CHAIRPERSON Yes, Mr? CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR MALUSI Just one question Mr Chairperson. When were the houses of Mpeteka and Digane burnt? MR MKONWANA I remember it was the 12th September 1985 and the reason why I remember this date is because it was the commemoration of the death of Bantu Steve Biko that day so these two buildings were targeted as a result of that and otherwise there was no planning prior to their burning, it was something that happens spontaneously. MR MALUSI Did you refer to that incident in your application form? MR MKONWANA Yes I did refer to that incident but I did not think that I cited the dates and as to the occasion. Yes, paragraph 9(a) sub paragraph (i), burnt the rent office and Public Works Department, that is page 2. MR MALUSI I'm specifically referring to the burning of the house of Mpeteka and Digane. MR MKONWANA No, I don't think they are here but there was a letter which I had attached to my original application but unfortunately the evidence leader has informed me that it has not been assigned to him and I believe that it was mentioned in that letter that was attached to the application form. CHAIRPERSON As part of the application? MR MKONWANA Yes that is correct, Mr Chairperson. CHAIRPERSON Mr Mkonwana, just tell me, what's your academic qualifications today? MR MKONWANA I passed Standard 10 in 1993 and the reasons why I passed in 1993 are related to all this saga, I should have passed Standard 10 in 1988 but I nearly lost my sanity and a sense of self respect because of whatever happened in 1985 and 1986. CHAIRPERSON Are you presently studying further? MR MKONWANA I intend to, next year, if I go through this process. I've already applied to the University of the Western Cape for an LLB degree and I've not received any response yet. CHAIRPERSON Yes Mr Malusi, it looks like you're going to get some competition in the near future. MR MALUSI Thank you Mr Chairperson. Mr Mkonwana, you'll pardon me, I did not get exactly the date. You say on what date was the house of Mr Mpeteka and Digane burnt? MR MKONWANA It was the same night that Nomboniso and Mr Paka were killed, that is the 24th April 1986. MR MALUSI Yes. Just as a precursor, the position of the family is that in principle they are not opposed to your application for amnesty but they request that full disclosure be made to the Committee and in that line I have a few questions from them with respect to your application. MR MKONWANA Welcome. MR MALUSI In the bundle on page 2 in your application, paragraph 9 a(i), in your application therein you said you participated in the killing of Nomboniso Cakwe and A V Paka and burning D M Digane. You give the impression there that you were actually part of the burning but then in your affidavit you say you were on the other side of the township? MR MKONWANA Of course. MR MALUSI Can you explain that? MR MKONWANA I will, Sir. The fact of the matter is that because conspiracy to murder constitutes an offence, I believe that by doing that and not warning them beforehand that they were going to be killed or warning the police for that matter, I participated. Whether at the planning stages or at the execution of the murder, that is my position. MR MALUSI Yes. CHAIRPERSON You did one of the two or both? MR MKONWANA I did one of the two, that is it was at the planning stages of it because when it was decided that they must be killed it was planned because we knew that they were soft targets and they would be found at any time. MR MALUSI The decision to kill the two people and the others, you say it was taken before the 24th April? MR MKONWANA Yes that is correct. MR MALUSI When that decision was taken, were reasons given why specifically the two people had to be killed? That is Nomboniso and Mr Cakwe? MR MKONWANA The reason why Nomboniso and Mr Paka were targeted because Nomboniso, it was alleged that she was an informer and this has been reinforced by the fact that when people went to her house to warn her that she must refrain from being an informer, our comrades were arrested and they were tortured subsequently and when they came back they informed a number of us or that we had been arrested for that, the fact that Nomboniso, we had gone to Nomboniso's house and secondly, as to Mr Paka, Mr Paka was an orator and he could make people very inflammatory because he was a member of the senate and the statements that he made at the gatherings of the senate inflamed us and the wrath of the comrades at that time and that is the reason why he was targeted and he was an orator and he was a good man but who happened to be on the wrong side of the fence. MR MALUSI The comrades you referred to ...(intervention) CHAIRPERSON Was he part of the Ciskeian Government? MR MKONWANA No he was a member of the Ciskeian National Independence Party and they used to organise meetings and then these meetings he used to stand up and address the people and there were people attending these meetings. CHAIRPERSON You say that's the Ciskeian? MR MKONWANA National Independence Party, it was led by L L Sebe. CHAIRPERSON Yes. MR MALUSI The people who you referred to as having gone to warn Nomboniso to stop her activities as an informer, as you allege, who were those people? MR MKONWANA I was part of those people but the only person who I can now remember and one of those people who were arrested as a result of having gone to Nomboniso's home on that particular day is Mr Matundu and he was one of the people who were taken into custody and tortured and released thereafter. MR MALUSI Is the incident you are referring to of Nomboniso of having been warned about her activities as an informer different from the incident related to in page 11 of the bundle by Ms Cakwe, the mother to the deceased? That would be page 11, paragraphs 1, 2 and 3 where she is referring to Kenny Tokwe, Vuyo Dikene and others having gone to her house and tortured her daughter somewhere else and brought her back saying she's exonerated so to speak? Is the incident you are referring to different from that one? MR MKONWANA No, it's totally different, the warning came prior to this, I heard about this one but I was not here but I heard that she had been burnt with plastic on her wrists but it had happened after we had gone to her house but on that day that we went to her house we did not take her with us, we just warned her and went away and after that something like this happened and I should think that it was carried out by a few mavericks within the structure because it was not intended that she must be burnt with plastic and what the intention was to remove her permanently. MR MALUSI So the structure knew about this torture, came to hear of this torture, came to hear of this torture. MR MKONWANA Yes, we came to hear about this thing, I came to hear about this thing that she had been burnt with plastic on her wrists but I do not know why but I recognise one man here and I know that person. I should think that he's my cousin. MR MALUSI So the structure did not go along with this exoneration, that is Genetokwa that, she was not an informer and it was just jealousy? MR MKONWANA No, he didn't and otherwise the fact that Genetokwa exonerated her was questioned by certain people because he had not been in Sada for quite some time and where he was we didn't know and it was rumoured that he maybe collaborating with the system because he had not been in Sada when we needed him most because he was more politically advanced than many of us but he had not been there and he did not account for that but he was exonerated later on. MR MALUSI Finally Sir, I know you do not have to say anything to the victims that are here but I've been asked to extend an invitation to you to say something if you want to to them? MR MKONWANA I see today that the mother and the sister of Nomboniso are here. I knew the mother as Magadebe and the sister as Togiso Priscilla Cakwe and I have known Nomboniso for ten years prior to this unfortunate incidents. I have been a student with Togiso for quite some time and I think that her mother knew my father very well and what happened in 1986 was very unfortunate. It was an accident of history from which we could not run away and I regret that it should happen in that way and Nomboniso was a good girl, she was beautiful, I even had a crush for her when we were in the primary school. As for Mr Paka he was a very good man, he was a teacher in our area and in that school progress came by when he arrived. I should think that the academic standards were very low there and when he came to teach there discipline was asserted, well once again reasserted and there was no truancy. He was a very good man. It's very unfortunate that I knew him within the political context of the South African history. I apologise to those families, both families, and I understand that I have come here to the Committee voluntarily, I have applied voluntarily and I also understand that they may never forgive me for what happened although I was not at the execution but I understand that maybe they understand why this should happen, sacrifices were made on both sides. So I apologise to both families. Thank you. MR MALUSI That's all the questions I have Mr Chairperson. The other aspect I wanted to cover with the Committee is to have the victims given a victim status by the Committee. I don't know if this is the appropriate time to make that application to the Committee? NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MALUSI CHAIRPERSON We would have done it in any event. Mr Mapoma, have you got any questions? MR MAPOMA Thank you Chairperson, I have no questions. NO QUESTIONS BY MR MAPOMA CHAIRPERSON I don't suppose you have any re-examination Mr Nompozolo? MR NOMPOZOLO Thank you, none Mr Chairperson. NO QUESTIONS BY MR NOMPOZOLO ADV SIBANYONI Just one question. The Ciskei Independence National Party, how was it in relation to your structures? Was it an organisation which you can regard as an enemy or how was it? MR MKONWANA It was an appendage of the National Party which ruled South Africa at that time and we regarded as a puppet organisation which was aimed at oppressing the people of Ciskei and we also regarded the Ciskei National Independence Party then as an organisation that extorted monies from our parents and especially from elders who were senior citizens who were getting pensions because if they had to pay some monies which were not explained to the Ciskei National Independence Party, subscriptions, whereas they were not members of the Ciskei National Independence Party at the pain of having their pensions taken away from them. ADV SIBANYONI I think that was the only question, Mr Chairperson. CHAIRPERSON Were those political crimes raised with the members of this party? MR MKONWANA Of the? CHAIRPERSON Of the political parties that assisted the apartheid regime? MR MKONWANA It was not easy to deal with those people. What we should understand is that these people, especially the leadership, there were a conservative element who had nothing to do with the youth who understood politics not within the Ciskei context but from a national point of view so they did not regard us very seriously and we were even told that if we wanted freedom, let us get out of the borders of Ciskei and go to South Africa, go to Queenstown, go to ...(indistinct) so that we can be able to raise these issues with the White government and we were free in Ciskei and if there was no way by which they were going to listen to us and the only party that was going to act in Ciskei was the seniors and that was the case so we could not raise any issues with them because they couldn't listen to us. CHAIRPERSON Or wouldn't listen? MR MKONWANA Like Mr Mpeteka, when Mr Mpeteka was targeted on that night on a previous occasion he had said we were "omokolot", I understand that "omokolot" means rebels and so we have to be dealt with once and for all and he even threatened to take action and lead the people to burn the comrades and we thought that now he was joking because he could not do anything to us, we were far stronger than they were but we took it seriously. CHAIRPERSON Mr Mkonwana, I know that you apologised to the families and said what you wanted to say. Maybe that's appreciated. MR MKONWANA Yes, sir. CHAIRPERSON If at all it can be arranged that you are able to meet the families in private without the spectacle of television, would you be willing to do that? MR MKONWANA I would. For that matter I have been in the past from Cape Town up to East London with Mrs Paka and I realised that she was Mrs Paka. I fought so much with myself and I wanted to go to her and tell her that how much sorry I was but I did not muster the courage to do that. CHAIRPERSON But if there is a way that it can be done are you willing to? MR MKONWANA I am, Mr Chairperson. CHAIRPERSON Mr Mapoma and Mr Malusi, do you think that can be arranged or can you investigate the possibility? MR MALUSI We certainly will Mr Chairperson. CHAIRPERSON I mean the Panel need not be involved in it, I mean we don't want - we'd appreciate it if it can be done. MR MALUSI I'm certain it can be done. CHAIRPERSON Mr Mkonwana, tell me, when did you leave Whittlesea? MR MKONWANA Whittlesea, I left Whittlesea on the 6th May 1986, no on the 8th May 1986, I went to Mdantsane because I was running away and when they released me they said I must not move from my yard because they revisit me and I told myself okay, I will stay only for one day and on the 8th in the middle of the night they took a private car and went to Mdantsane and I knew they could not find me in Mdantsane because they did not know my relatives in Mdantsane and I waited for a call from Cape Town and I was told, I was asked whether I was ready to go to Cape Town and I told them that willingly and I went back to Cape Town on the 6th June 1986 a month after I was released. CHAIRPERSON And what have you been doing since in respect of the struggle? MR MKONWANA Mr Chairperson, I wouldn't like to tell you how I've suffered about his. You know there was nothing while I was still in this region. I lived in the shacks there and every time, every day when I see a shack burning, I see that house of Digane burning and after that nightmare the house just transforms itself as being the face of Nomboniso so I've known her for quite some time and the pain I've gone through has caused me a lot academically because I lost concentration. When I came back here to East London in 1996 I was staying in Mdantsane, I was treated for depression here at St Dominics Hospital because of these nightmares and I had a private doctor, Doctor Theron, in East London and he treated me for depression and there was nothing that I could do which is concrete which I say I have done from then on other than going back to school and passing Standard 10. CHAIRPERSON Yes, thank you. We reserve this judgement as well. Mr Mapoma, is that the roll for the day? MR MAPOMA Yes Chairperson, that is the roll for the day. CHAIRPERSON What has happened to that matter that was postponed yesterday or was supposed to have come on yesterday? MR MAPOMA Yes Chairperson, the investigator, Kaiser matter, came to me this morning from Uitenhage. He says that he did meet the mother and the mother reported to him that the applicant left with a friend of his some time ago who promised to be looking for a job for him. Unfortunately the traces of that friend and the applicant could not be made and the parents did not know the particulars of those people. CHAIRPERSON Was the applicant informed to be here? MR MAPOMA Not personally Chairperson because the notice was sent to prison because the TRC records showed that he was still in prison. It came to the notice of the Amnesty Committee I think last Thursday that he was in fact released from prison, from prison officials and then we asked them to send notice to his original address which they did and they met the mother who said she does not know his whereabouts and then we ended up sending our investigator to attend to the matter. CHAIRPERSON So it looks like we'll have to postpone that matter? MR MAPOMA By the look of things Chairperson, yes because his whereabouts still now have to be followed. CHAIRPERSON Then I think I must make an order indicating or stipulating that an investigator must make irregular visits to his mother and explain to the mother and leave a fresh notice there that he should contact the head office of the TRC as soon as possible. If arrangements can be made for that hearing. MR MAPOMA Yes Chairperson. That will be in order. CHAIRPERSON We'll adjourn till tomorrow morning, 9 o'clock. WITNESS EXCUSED COMMITTEE ADJOURNS