amntrans AMNESTY HEARINGS 1999-11-10 JOHANNESBURG 3 MOKETE BERNARD MSIMANGO https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=53882&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/amntrans/1999/99110812_jhb_991110jb.htm CHAIRPERSON Mr Msimango, will you take the witness stand. Just remain standing and give us your full names for the record. MOKETE BERNARD MSIMANGO (sworn states) CHAIRPERSON Thank you, you may be seated. Mr Koopedi? EXAMINATION BY MR KOOPEDI Thank you, Chairperson. Mr Msimango, is it correct that you are an applicant in this matter and that your application is the one that appears on page 10 of the bundle of documents? MR MSIMANGO That's correct. MR KOOPEDI Is it also correct that the incident you are appearing before this Honourable Committee for, occurred on the 29th of July 1992, and this involves the attack on one, John Selai? MR MSIMANGO That's correct. MR KOOPEDI Could you briefly tell this Honourable Committee where you were and what happened in the evening of that day. MR MSIMANGO I was at Checkers Tavern, drinking. While we were drinking we heard gunshots outside and then we tried to hide ourselves. There was no place for me to hide myself because there were many people in the tavern, so I stood next to the door and then Johannes appeared. As he appeared he dragged me towards himself and then he said "Go out, they won't do anything" and then they pushed me on the wall. Johannes stood at the door, he was telling these people inside to go outside one by one, they won't do anything to them. So they went outside one by one and then a gang appeared from nowhere and then Johannes and his friends ran away and then people came out of the tavern and all of us went out ways. I went home. While I was still at home, after some time - Checkers Tavern is not far away from my home, then I saw a large group of people entering Checkers Tavern. That is when I left my home, taking my panga and I went to Checkers. Then when I arrived there I saw Johannes, he was being assaulted and being asked questions about his other friends. When I arrived I said to them "Don't ask him many questions", and then I hacked him with the panga. When I hacked him they took him outside and he was doused with petrol and set alight. While he was still burning, the police and soldiers appeared and they came to his rescue and then we ran away and he was left there with the police. They took him to the hospital. MR KOOPEDI Now for your part on Johannes, did you receive any personal gain? MR MSIMANGO I hacked Johannes ...(intervention) MR KOOPEDI My question to you is, for having taken part in assaulting or injuring Johannes, did you receive any personal gain, did you receive any money for it? MR MSIMANGO No, I did not receive anything. I did not expect to be remunerated in any way because we were at war with Johannes and his party. MR KOOPEDI Do you then regard this attack as having been politically motivated? MR MSIMANGO Yes, because he was a member of Inkatha and I live in the township and I was a supporter of ANC. So when they come from Kwamadala into the township, their aim is to fight, so we as the residents in the township, we fight together against those people from Kwamadala. So Johannes was one of those people who were resident at Kwamadala Hostel. MR KOOPEDI Finally, do you think you have fully disclosed to this Honourable Committee, all the relevant and material facts about this issue? MR MSIMANGO Yes, I think so. MR KOOPEDI Thank you, Chairperson, no further questions. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR KOOPEDI CHAIRPERSON Thank you. Ms Mtanga, any questions? MS MTANGA I have no questions, Chairperson. NO QUESTIONS BY MS MTANGA CHAIRPERSON The Panel? MR SIBANYONI No questions, Mr Chairperson. MR LAX No questions. CHAIRPERSON Have you got anything further? MR KOOPEDI Nothing, Chairperson. NO RE-EXAMINATION BY MR KOOPEDI CHAIRPERSON Yes, Mr Msimango, you are excused, thank you. WITNESS EXCUSED MR KOOPEDI Chairperson, may I call the next witness, Mr Ernest Hlongwane? CHAIRPERSON Yes.