amntrans AMNESTY HEARINGS 1999-11-18 PRETORIA 4 NICHOLAS JOHANNES VERMEULEN https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=53905&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/amntrans/1999/9911151210_pre_991118pt.htm MR LAX Mr Vermeulen, your full names for the record. NICHOLAS JOHANNES VERMEULEN (sworn states) MR LAX Please be seated. Sworn in, Chairperson. EXAMINATION BY MR CORNELIUS Thank you, Mr Chair. I'll be brief, I think most of the facts before us from now on will be almost on an agreed basis. Mr Vermeulen, you have prepared an application in terms of Section 18 of the Act, and you have handed it in. MR VERMEULEN That's correct, Chairperson. MR CORNELIUS At that stage you were an employee, as described in Section 20(2)(b) and 20(2)(f), Act 34. MR VERMEULEN That's correct, Chairperson. MR CORNELIUS You were a member of Vlakplaas, as described in Exhibit A in this hearing and you were of the rank of Warrant Officer. MR VERMEULEN That is correct, Chairperson. MR CORNELIUS You were also an explosives expert or an explosives inspector. MR VERMEULEN That is correct, Chairperson. MR CORNELIUS And at all times, as the Honourable Member Mr Lax said, you acted in the execution of your instructions. MR VERMEULEN That's correct, Chairperson. MR CORNELIUS And it is also common cause before this Amnesty Committee, that you received an instruction to go along with Swart and Chait to the house of de Kock. MR VERMEULEN That is correct, Chairperson. MR CORNELIUS And you were given instructions there to assist with the destruction of the body of Sweet Sambo. MR VERMEULEN That is correct, Chairperson. MR CORNELIUS Did you bona fide believe that this instruction came from a higher authority and that you acted against the so-called political enemy of the country? MR VERMEULEN Yes, that is correct, Chairperson. MR CORNELIUS Did you have any ill-feelings towards the particular victim? MR VERMEULEN No, Chairperson. MR CORNELIUS Except for your salary that you received, did you receive any other reward, bonus or reward? MR VERMEULEN No, Chairperson. MR CORNELIUS Very well. I want you to very briefly -after the body was collected, did you obtain explosives? MR VERMEULEN Yes, Chairperson. MR CORNELIUS What did you obtain? MR VERMEULEN I obtained explosives at Vlakplaas. It was not prepared, it was pieces that we had taken from old landmines and commercial explosives. It was approximately 20 to 25 kilograms. MR CORNELIUS Was this TNT? MR VERMEULEN That's correct, Chairperson. MR CORNELIUS And it is common cause that you transported it and took it to Verdrag. What did you do with the corpse and the explosives? MR VERMEULEN We laid out the body and we placed the explosives on top of the body and we detonated it several times. MR CORNELIUS Was the body clothed, it did not have any clothes on? MR VERMEULEN No, Chairperson. MR CORNELIUS Did you place it in a hunched position? MR VERMEULEN No, Chairperson, it was lying flat. MR CORNELIUS And rigor mortis had already set in. MR VERMEULEN That is correct, Chairperson. MR CORNELIUS You apply for amnesty before this Committee, for accessory to murder, transgressions with regard to the Explosives Act, with regard to the transport of explosives. MR VERMEULEN Yes, Chairperson. MR CORNELIUS As well as all delicts which might emanate from acts or omissions committed by you. MR VERMEULEN That is correct, Chairperson. MR CORNELIUS Thank you, Mr Chair. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR CORNELIUS CHAIRPERSON I take it it's all delicts committed by you in connection with this offence? MR CORNELIUS Oh yes. CHAIRPERSON You're not asking for a ... MR CORNELIUS No, I'd love to do it on a broader basis, but no, this is regarding this offence. Thank you, Mr Chair. CHAIRPERSON Any questions? MR HATTINGH No thank you, Mr Chairman. NO QUESTIONS BY MR HATTINGH MR LAMEY No questions, Chairperson. NO QUESTIONS BY MR LAMEY CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS LOCKHAT Just one question, Chairperson. When you got the instruction from Mr de Kock, did he tell you that he'd received authorisation from Mr Engelbrecht or anybody else? When you received the instruction, the initial instruction. MR VERMEULEN No, Mr Chairman. MS LOCKHAT So you just - you were just told you must go out and dispose of the body? MR VERMEULEN That's correct, Mr Chairman. MS LOCKHAT I've got no further questions, thank you, Chairperson. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS LOCKHAT CHAIRPERSON I take it that was the normal practice at Vlakplaas. MR VERMEULEN That's correct, Mr Chairman. CHAIRPERSON De Kock gave the orders, he didn't have to explain to you where or how he got them, he just told you what to do. MR VERMEULEN That's correct, Mr Chairman. MR SIBANYONI I suppose you didn't have any removal order to transport the body from Middelburg to Verdrag? Maybe your attorney will look to that, there is an offence of transporting a body without a removal order. MR VERMEULEN No, we didn't have a ... MR SIBANYONI You didn't have an order. MR VERMEULEN No, Sir. MR SIBANYONI Thank you. CHAIRPERSON Thank you. I take it you have no re-examination. MR CORNELIUS There's no re-examination, thank you, Sir. NO RE-EXAMINATION BY MR CORNELIUS MR VERMEULEN Thank you. WITNESS EXCUSED MR CORNELIUS Thank you, Mr Chair. My next applicant will be Swart, J J Swart.