amntrans AMNESTY HEARINGS 1999-11-18 PRETORIA 4 JOHANNES JAKOBUS SWART https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=53906&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/amntrans/1999/9911151210_pre_991118pt.htm MR SIBANYONI Your full names, Mr Swart. JOHANNES JAKOBUS SWART (sworn states) MR SIBANYONI Please be seated. Sworn in, Chairperson. EXAMINATION BY MR CORNELIUS Thank you, Mr Chair. Mr Swart, you have handed up a proper application in terms of Section 18, and you were an employee as described in Section 20(2)(b) and Section 20(2)(f) of Act 34/95, is that correct? MR SWART That's correct, Chairperson. MR CORNELIUS You were also a member of Vlakplaas, as prescribed, and you had the rank of Constable, is that correct? MR SWART That is correct, Chairperson. MR CORNELIUS You have already heard the evidence that was led here this morning, and at all times you acted within the scope of your duties in the execution of your instructions from Col de Kock, is that correct? MR SWART That is correct, Chairperson. MR CORNELIUS Did you bona fide believe that you acted against a political enemy of the country in the execution of your duties? MR SWART Yes, I did. MR CORNELIUS You knew the instruction or request came from Security. MR SWART That is correct. MR CORNELIUS You worked on a need-to-know basis at all stages and you did not put questions to Mr de Kock with regard to his instructions, is that correct? MR SWART That is correct. MR CORNELIUS Did you have any ill-feelings towards the victim, Sweet Sambo? MR SWART No, Chairperson. MR CORNELIUS Except for your salary, did you receive any remuneration or reward for your services rendered? MR SWART Not at all. MR CORNELIUS Insofar as it has regard to the evidence of Klopper and Vermeulen, you confirm the contents of your application and you agree with their evidence, is that correct? MR SWART That is correct, Chairperson. MR CORNELIUS You apply here for amnesty for your participation as an accessory in a murder, defeating the ends of justice and possible transgressions of the Explosives Act, and delicts which might emanate from acts and/or omissions of this particular incident, is that correct? MR SWART That is correct, Chairperson. MR CORNELIUS Thank you, Mr Chair. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR CORNELIUS MR HATTINGH I have no questions, thank you, Mr Chairman. NO QUESTIONS BY MR HATTINGH MR LAMEY Thank you, Chairperson. I've got no questions, I just want to put on record there are certain minor differences about which vehicle, where they got each other. I'm not going to put that, thank you, Chairperson. NO QUESTIONS BY MR LAMEY CHAIRPERSON I think we must bear in mind that we're talking of something nine years ago and for people to remember precisely who was in what car at what stage of the journey, is ... Right, questions? MS LOCKHAT No, thank you, Chairperson. NO QUESTIONS BY MS LOCKHAT MR CORNELIUS That concludes our presentation, thank you, Chair. CHAIRPERSON I have one question I meant to put to your previous applicant, but I see he's left us. MR CORNELIUS He is available, Chair. CHAIRPERSON Is he? Well could you recall him for one moment. MR CORNELIUS Thank you, Mr Chair. CHAIRPERSON I've got no questions for this applicant. MR CORNELIUS I'll do so. WITNESS EXCUSED