amntrans AMNESTY HEARINGS 1999-11-26 PRETORIA 8 IZAK DANIEL BOSCH - RECALL https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=53915&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/amntrans/1999/9911151210_pre_991126pt.htm MR LAX Mr Bosch, do you confirm that you are still under your former oath? IZAK DANIEL BOSCH (s.u.o.) MR LAX Thank you, you may be seated. FURTHER EXAMINATION BY MR LAMEY Thank you, Chairperson. Mr Bosch, did you have the opportunity this morning to examine the packaging which has been handed in to the Chairperson, the Unisef packaging? MR BOSCH Yes, that is correct. MR LAMEY Is this the packaging in which the cassette player was when you purchased it? MR BOSCH Yes, it looks exactly like that. MR LAMEY Now at the stage - and can I just make sure from you, did you already give the cassettes to the Technical Division, or what is your recollection about this? This is before you arrived there when the parcel was being wrapped. MR BOSCH They already had the cassettes at that stage. MR LAMEY That would be the Neil Diamond and the BZN? MR BOSCH Yes, that is correct. MR LAMEY Now when you arrived there, when the package was being wrapped, what kind of packaging did you see, what is your recollection? MR BOSCH My recollection is the same as Kobus Kok, we wrapped that thing that is before the Chairperson. MR LAMEY Can you recall at which stage you arrived there, in what process was the packaging? MR BOSCH If I recall correctly there was perhaps one layer of paper around the parcel already and we put another layer of paper around the parcel, a second or a third layer, but it was already wrapped. MR LAMEY And Mr Kok testified about an unevenness. MR BOSCH Yes, that is correct. MR LAMEY What is your recollection? MR BOSCH I recall it as such as well. MR LAMEY So what you then recall is a container of a square shape with an uneven surface, wrapped in brown paper? MR BOSCH Tightly in brown paper. MR LAMEY Tightly in brown paper? MR BOSCH Yes, it was tightly wrapped. MR LAMEY And when you later saw the container once again at Vlakplaas, how did it look? MR BOSCH As I've already stated, the parcel was in a plastic bag, I did not pick up the parcel or feel it, I simply looked down into the bag. MR LAMEY And what did you see inside the bag, was it once again wrapped in brown paper? MR BOSCH Yes, it was wrapped in brown paper and something was written on it in koki pen. CHAIRPERSON Sorry, before you move on from there, you say that it was a square container with an uneven surface. Was the whole of the surface uneven or do you just mean there were lumps on top? MR BOSCH Just on top where the cassettes were situated. CHAIRPERSON It was the cassettes that made it uneven? MR BOSCH That is correct. CHAIRPERSON The rest was of it was just the square cardboard box. MR BOSCH Yes, that is correct. MR LAMEY I don't know whether there's anything further, Chairperson, that you would like to know from this witness. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR LAMEY CHAIRPERSON Any questions? FURTHER CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR BOOYENS Just one aspect. Mr Bosch, this parcel spent quite some time in your locked office after it came from Technical, is that correct? MR BOSCH Yes, that is correct. MR BOOYENS Now I want you to try and remember, your office was usually kept locked. MR BOSCH Yes, that is correct. After my former evidence I have thought quite extensively about this matter, how could the parcel have been repackaged or exchanged perhaps, but if I recall correctly, there was someone else because I was already on my way to DCC, Charlie Chait would have taken over from me and he also had a key to my office. MR BOOYENS So how many keys were there? MR BOSCH There were three. MR BOOYENS You, de Kock and Charlie Chait? MR BOSCH That is correct. MR BOOYENS You have no independent recollection that the parcel had to wrapped more tightly at any stage? MR BOSCH No, as I've said, I didn't want to tamper or touch the package in any way, it was kept in the plastic bag. MR BOOYENS Very well. Thank you, Chairperson. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR BOOYENS CHAIRPERSON Before you leave, Mr Bosch, I would like to ask you about some other incidents. MR BOSCH Yes, Sir. CHAIRPERSON You were connected were you not, with other incidents where explosive devices were sent to people? MR BOSCH That is correct, Chairperson. CHAIRPERSON How many others? MR BOSCH Two others. CHAIRPERSON Which were they? MR BOSCH A parcel which went to Swaziland and a parcel which went to Zambia. CHAIRPERSON And were they before or after - to Zambia? Is that the radio bomb? MR BOSCH That is correct, Chairperson. CHAIRPERSON Were they before or after this incident? MR BOSCH It was before this. CHAIRPERSON And the parcel that was sent to Swaziland was opened by a postal worker and then exploded? MR BOSCH That is correct. CHAIRPERSON Did you know that before you sent this bomb to Lusaka again, the present one? MR BOSCH Yes, I knew that. CHAIRPERSON So you - did the other people at Vlakplaas know it? MR BOSCH That is correct, Chairperson. CHAIRPERSON So they were aware of the danger to innocent postal workers and people such as that, by sending bombs in the post? MR BOSCH That is correct. CHAIRPERSON But they nevertheless went ahead with it. MR BOSCH That is correct. CHAIRPERSON As did you. MR BOSCH Correct. CHAIRPERSON Any further questions? MR LAX Just one aspect, Chair. We heard about another bomb that went to the PAC in Tanzania, if I remember correctly, were you involved in that one as well? MR BOSCH No, I don't think it was Tanzania, it was Zambia, the one that they found and defused. Then it may have been Tanzania. CHAIRPERSON Yes. MR LAX Okay. I'm just wondering whether there was some confusion. My recollection is Tanzania, Dar-es-salaam in fact. MR BOSCH That is possible. CHAIRPERSON Well in the amnesty application it says it was given to Jerry Raven to send to PAC members in Lusaka. MR BOSCH No, Chairperson, that is incorrect. I received the radio from Jerry Raven. CHAIRPERSON Oh sorry, bomb given to you by Jerry Raven, and you sent it to the PAC in Lusaka. MR BOSCH Yes. I may have been mistaken, but I know that it was sent to the PAC. MR LAX Thank you, Chair. MACHINE SWITCHED OFF MS LOCKHAT No questions, thank you, Chairperson. NO QUESTIONS BY MS LOCKHAT CHAIRPERSON Right. Well we'll take the short adjournment at this stage. You are excused from further attendance. WITNESS EXCUSED MR LAMEY Chairperson, may I just enquire, Mr Nortje is also present, who I think saw the package afterwards. I don't know whether you want me to call him. CHAIRPERSON Well he's given evidence on it, hasn't he? MR LAMEY Yes. CHAIRPERSON Everybody so far has denied any knowledge of the change of the package, of writing anything on it, of putting any stickers on it. MR LAMEY Yes, Chairperson, I know, but I think Mr Nortje hasn't had an opportunity to be able to look at the photographs. CHAIRPERSON Oh well you can let him look at the photographs and he give evidence after the adjournment. MR LAMEY As it pleases, Chairperson. COMMITTEE ADJOURNS ON RESUMPTION CHAIRPERSON I am now handing over possession of the packet, the white wrapping and the Neil Diamond tape and accept no further - and the second photographic album. MR BOOYENS Mr Chairman, as my learned friend appearing for Gen van Rensburg, has indicated - that's of course always subject to the Committee's attitude, Mr Bellingan is available and my learned friend as you heard, indicated that he wouldn't be with him long, he just wants to put Gen van Rensburg's version to him. I do not know whether the Committee would make it possible for us to interpose Mr Bellingan at this stage. MR VICTOR That is indeed my request, Chairperson. MR LAMEY Chairperson, may I just, as far as Mr Nortje is concerned, I have taken instructions and I submit that Mr Nortje really cannot take the matter any further. CHAIRPERSON ...(indistinct - no microphone) MR HATTINGH Nortje? I have no questions for him and I don't think he can take this issue any further, Mr Chairman. CHAIRPERSON As far as I can gather, nobody here wants, at the present moment, wants to ask him any further questions, so unless you have some devastating information you wish to disclose. MR LAMEY No, Chairperson. CHAIRPERSON Perhaps he's going to come and identify his handwriting on the package. MR LAMEY Unfortunately not. CHAIRPERSON Very well, do you agree that we interpose Bellingan.