amntrans AMNESTY HEARINGS 2000-03-15 PRETORIA 15 WILHELM RIAAN BELLINGAN 5283/97 https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=54081&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/amntrans/2000/200315pt.htm CHAIRPERSON Mr Bellingan, what language would you prefer to use? MR BELLINGAN Afrikaans, please. WILHELM RIAAN BELLINGAN (sworn states) CHAIRPERSON Please be seated. EXAMINATION BY MR VAN DER MERWE Thank you, Chairperson. Mr Bellingan, you prepared an application concerning this matter and it starts on page 146 and the introduction continues up to page 162. MR BELLINGAN Yes, I do confirm it. MR VAN DER MERWE Do you also confirm that it is the truth? MR BELLINGAN Yes. MR VAN DER MERWE Concerning 146, it is also so in paragraph 7 that while you were the service of the South African Defence Force, you were a supporter of the National Party, is that correct? MR BELLINGAN Yes. MR VAN DER MERWE Would you like the Committee to change it then in paragraph 7(a) and (b)? MR BELLINGAN Correct, Chairperson. MR VAN DER MERWE On page 163 the application continues. You were not quite sure of the specific date of the operation but you are willing to accept that the date of this action was on the 11th of December 1988, is that correct? MR BELLINGAN That is correct, yes. MR VAN DER MERWE Your participation or role in this matter does concur with the previous witness, you do confirm that you were not part of the operation itself, but that you were part of the observation team and later on with the transportation of the members who executed the operation. That is now from the border up until the premises where it occurred. MR BELLINGAN That is correct. MR VAN DER MERWE Do you also confirm the rest of your statement and application up until page 171? MR BELLINGAN That is correct, yes. MR VAN DER MERWE You realised that the instructions and commands that you received was to destroy this transit house as well as the death of those living there or using the house. MR BELLINGAN That is correct. MR VAN DER MERWE And you confirm that you did reconcile yourself with that fact and you did nothing to prevent - or you did this to prevent the members of the liberation movement to infiltrate the country. MR BELLINGAN That is correct. MR VAN DER MERWE Thank you, Chairperson, I've got no further questions. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR VAN DER MERWE CHAIRPERSON Mr Lamey. MR LAMEY No questions. NO QUESTIONS BY MR LAMEY MR NEL Thank you, Chairperson. Christo Nel, no questions. NO QUESTIONS BY MR NEL MR CORNELIUS Wim Cornelius, I've got no questions, Mr Chair. NO QUESTIONS BY MR CORNELIUS CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR HUGO Thank you, Mr Chairman. Hugo on record, I just have one question, or one aspect. Mr Bellingan, you say on page 163 of your application that you received the instructions from Col de Kock and that he mentioned to you that Trevits identified the transit facility. Are you sure that he referred to Trevits, or did he just generally mention the information that was gathered? MR BELLINGAN Chairperson, it could have been that he just mentioned the information, but the reason why I used Trevits in my application is, after Martiens Ras started working for us, Col de Kock gave the instructions to train him in the Security Police and I also took him to the research desk to get information, to verify this information, and this was part of C-Section. CHAIRPERSON Is this now Ras? MR BELLINGAN Yes, Chairperson. So Trevits was also a leg of this research desk, so I believe that Lt Ras would then have gone to the research desk and Trevits to verify the information that we received, because he wouldn't have known of those detainees in Vereeniging. So that is maybe the confusion that occurred because of that. So I will agree that Mr de Kock may have not mentioned the word Trevits pertinently. JUDGE KHAMPEPE Are you saying that you must have been wrong when you said subsequent to information received from Mr de Kock, you the formed a view that the targets had been identified by Trevits? MR BELLINGAN Yes, I could have interpreted it in the wrong way. The conclusion that I made was that Martiens would have gone to the research department, Trevits, it wasn't that Col de Kock used the word Trevits. MR HUGO And is it correct - or let me put it like this, were you aware of the fact that Mr Ras was the person who gathered the information and planned the operation? MR BELLINGAN That is correct. MNR HUGO "En net om die rekord duidelik te kry, nie mnr de Kock of enige lede van Vlakplaas het sitting gehad op Trevits nie." MR BELLINGAN No, that's correct, Chairperson. MR HUGO Thank you, Mr Chairman. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR HUGO MR JANSEN Thank you, Chair. Jansen on behalf of Ras, no questions. NO QUESTIONS BY MR JANSEN CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR MARIBANA Thank you, Mr Chairman. J C Maribana on behalf of the victim. Mr Bellingan, I've just got a few questions for you. For how long were you involved in the observation of the said house? MR BELLINGAN Chairperson, it could have been the 10 days which Mr Ras talked about, where we were brought it, myself and Mr Tait. We observed the house for a period the house for two to three days from a safe point. That was the period directly before the attack. MR MARIBANA And from these 10 days, if I may just ask you a ...(indistinct) question, what did you observe actually? MR BELLINGAN Chairperson, I do not have all the details, but I believe it would have been the movement of people and vehicles which stopped or went past that specific house, but the finer details I cannot remember. MR MARIBANA And during your observations, do you still remember maybe the person - I think yesterday your attorney might have shown you the structure, if I may just check for convenience of the process - did you observe the persons who were living in structure X, and then if so will you maybe indicate or if you can remember, tell this Honourable Committee. Even if you can't mention names, whether they were men or what. Will you be able to tell this Honourable Committee about the persons whom you observed, who were living in structure X? MR BELLINGAN Chairperson, I cannot say with certainty who walked where and when, the information that we gathered we would have given to Martiens Ras when we came back from the observation point and he would have taken it further. I cannot really say anything about the finer details. It was about male and female persons as well as the vehicles that were used in that area. MR MARIBANA And if one understands you correctly, you couldn't even be able to tell us as to who actually was using structure Y, is that so? MR BELLINGAN Chairperson, I cannot remember it today. I'm very honest, I do not want to tell stories. CHAIRPERSON I understand. MR MARIBANA Thank you, Mr Chairperson, I've got no further questions. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MARIBANA CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS PATEL Thank you, Honourable Chairperson. Mr Bellingan, just one aspect really that I want clarity on. On page 163 of your application to us, you've stated that not only were weapons brought in from that particular transit house, but acts of murder and terror were also planned there, can you tell us what you based this on? MR BELLINGAN Chairperson, it would have been about the information that we received from Mr Ras, and it can be seen in this context. I also cannot remember the finer details around this point. It was a house that was used for the infiltration into South Africa and it was weapons that could have been used in South Africa. MS PATEL So that's just an assumption really, because Mr Ras also didn't testify that acts of terror and sabotage were in fact planned from that particular house. His testimony to us was that the house was used as an infiltration/ex-filtration route, but it didn't go further than that, so this is merely an assumption from your side, is that correct? I just want clarity on that. MR BELLINGAN That is the conclusion that I made as an operator. MS PATEL A conclusion based on? MR BELLINGAN On the information that Mr Ras received and gave to us. MS PATEL And you don't know what that specific information is. MR BELLINGAN I cannot say today it was point-for-point this and that but when I compiled my application, this is what I could remember. MS PATEL Can you tell us whether the reconnaissance that was done immediately prior to the operation, the 24-hour period that was spoken of, were you involved in that reconnaissance? MR BELLINGAN Yes, I was part of that 10 day period before. I cannot remember if I was there the day right before the operation or seven days before that, but I was there within that 10 day period. But there was a reconnaissance done. MS PATEL Alright. I know your memory seems to be rather vague, but perhaps you can assist, do you have any idea how many people were expected in the transit house the evening of the operation? MR BELLINGAN No, Chairperson, I was ...(intervention) JUDGE KHAMPEPE Ms Patel, may I just get clarity on that question. How many persons were expected or had been seen being brought in in a Toyota vehicle? MS PATEL And therefore expected to be found ...(intervention) JUDGE KHAMPEPE To be found? MS PATEL Yes, expected to be found. Yes, that's what I meant. MR BELLINGAN Chairperson, I cannot remember the amount. I will also agree with what Mr Ras testified. I do not have all the details. MS PATEL Alright. Thank you, Honourable Chairperson. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS PATEL MR VAN DER MERWE I have no re-examination, thank you, Mr Chairman. NO RE-EXAMINATION BY MR VAN DER MERWE ADV BOSMAN I have no questions, thank you, Chairperson. JUDGE KHAMPEPE I have no questions. CHAIRPERSON Thank you, you are excused. MR BELLINGAN Thank you, Sir. WITNESS EXCUSED MR VAN DER MERWE Chairperson, then the following applicant is Mr Johan Albert Hoffman. His application appears on page 342 of the bundle.