amntrans AMNESTY HEARINGS 2000-03-30 PRETORIA 3 JAMES EMIEL WILHELM VAN ZWEEL AM5017/97 https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=54123&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/amntrans/2000/200330pt.htm JAMES EMIEL WILHELM VAN ZWEEL (sworn states) CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Malan. Ms van DER Walt, you may continue. EXAMINATION BY MS VAN DER WALT Thank you, Chairperson. You have applied for amnesty Mr van Zweel, your application is embodied from page 45 to 59 in the bundle. MR VAN ZWEEL That is correct. MS VAN DER WALT Do you confirm the content of your statement? MR VAN ZWEEL That is correct. MS VAN DER WALT What was your rank in 1985? MR VAN ZWEEL I was a Warrant Officer. MS VAN DER WALT And the previous applicant was your senior in the police. MR VAN ZWEEL Yes, that is correct. MS VAN DER WALT And what was his rank during that stage? MR VAN ZWEEL A Brigadier. MS VAN DER WALT You have heard the evidence which has been rendered by the three previous applicants, do you confirm their evidence? MR VAN ZWEEL That is correct, Chairperson. MS VAN DER WALT And you were with Brig Visser in a vehicle. MR VAN ZWEEL That is correct. MS VAN DER WALT Then the last question which was put a few moments ago with regard to the firearms, what do you have to say about that? MR VAN ZWEEL I had a firearm in my hands. MS VAN DER WALT Therefore you took out the firearm? MR VAN ZWEEL That is correct. MS VAN DER WALT Do you then apply for amnesty for abduction and the fact that you crossed the border illegally? MR VAN ZWEEL That is correct. MS VAN DER WALT You have also then applied for the illegal crossing of a national border. MR VAN ZWEEL That is correct. MS VAN DER WALT As well as the illegal detention of the four persons. MR VAN ZWEEL Correct, Chairperson. MS VAN DER WALT And any other offence or delict which may emanate from the relevant facts to this matter or your participation in the incident. MR VAN ZWEEL That is correct. MS VAN DER WALT Thank you, nothing further. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS VAN DER WALT CHAIRPERSON Thank you, Ms van DER Walt. MR PRINSLOO No cross-examination, thank you Mr Chairman. NO QUESTIONS BY MR PRINSLOO CHAIRPERSON Thank you. Mr Richard? CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR RICHARD Sir, do you have any recollection of Mr Mosiane's physical condition when you took him from the hands of the Swazi Police? MR VAN ZWEEL I saw him, but I cannot recall whether or not he had incurred any injuries. MR RICHARD And it's also correct that you were not in the same car as Mr Mosiane when you travelled back to South Africa. MR VAN ZWEEL That is correct, Chairperson. MR RICHARD But nonetheless, there is no dispute and you do not challenge the statement that the behaviour of you and your colleagues was designed to make Mr Mosiane believe and have the impression that is he didn't do exactly what was wanted of him, he might well disappear? MR VAN ZWEEL That is correct, Chairperson. MR RICHARD By way of information, how many people entered into this particular police station? MR VAN ZWEEL We walked into the Charge Office, Chairperson. MR RICHARD How many? MR MALAN Mr Richard, I don't know where this is leading, Chairperson, but isn't the evidence that there were four of them. MR RICHARD Four. I beg your pardon. Chairperson, I leave it, it really doesn't take the matter any further. No further questions. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR RICHARD ADV STEENKAMP No questions, Honourable Chairperson. NO QUESTIONS BY ADV STEENKAMP CHAIRPERSON Adv Sandi. ADV SANDI Thank you, no questions. CHAIRPERSON Mr Malan. MR MALAN No questions. CHAIRPERSON I don't think you have any re-examination. MS VAN DER WALT No re-examination, thank you. NO RE-EXAMINATION BY MS VAN DER WALT CHAIRPERSON Thank you Mr van Zweel, you are excused. MR VAN ZWEEL Thank you, Chairperson. WITNESS EXCUSED MS VAN DER WALT That would then be the applicants on behalf of whom I have appeared, Chairperson. CHAIRPERSON Mr Richard, could I swing the ball into your court? MR RICHARD There is no further opposition, the victim is satisfied with the disclosure made. CHAIRPERSON And I take it you close your cases on those basis. MR RICHARD I do, Chairperson. CHAIRPERSON After listening to the evidence before us, personally, but I will put this to Mr Richard as well, is that it would appear to me there's no need for actual argument in this matter. I wonder if all of you agree with me in this respect, but if you don't you are at liberty to prosecute your case the way you see it. MR RICHARD I have no argument. NO ARGUMENT BY MR RICHARD CHAIRPERSON We'll start with the lady first. MS VAN DER WALT ADDRESSES Chairperson, I agree with you. I would just like to argue to the Committee that the applicants for whom I appear, meet the requirements of the Act and that they have made a full disclosure, and that we see from the case of Mr Mosiane. I shall argue that they should receive amnesty. Thank you, Chairperson. CHAIRPERSON ...(inaudible) INTERPRETER The speaker's microphone is not on. MS VAN DER WALT That is correct, Chairperson. MR PRINSLOO ADDRESSES Chairperson, I associate myself with what my colleague, Ms van DER Walt has said, as well as my colleague, Mr Richard, and I agree with the Honourable Chairperson that they have met the requirements of the Act and that they have made a full disclosure and that amnesty be granted to them. As it pleases the Committee. CHAIRPERSON Thank you, Mr Prinsloo. I don't if there is anything which you want to shed light on still, Mr Richard, you are at liberty to do so if there is anything to shed light on. MR RICHARD Chairperson, I believe my case is closed, nothing further. CHAIRPERSON Thank you very much, I'm indebted to the legal representatives. I'm indebted to Mr Mosiane to have come forward and again relive the events of the early '80s, when he believed he was going to contribute to the now dispensation we have in South Africa, and that he was unfortunately taken away and found himself on the side which he had not intended to be his side. We thank you very much for that, Mr Mosiane. And we think now you can continue with your life, at least you know the reasons, and you should have known the reasons because for some time you also were a participant, even though it was not to your liking, from the other side. We thank you very much for your attendance here. I must thank the applicants for the manner in which they gave their evidence, it was quite frank and open to the Committee. Thank you very much. We shall reserve our decision, but it will be given shortly. And Mr Mosiane, a copy will be provided to your legal representative, or if you could make arrangements, Mr Steenkamp will also make one available to you directly. Thank you very much, this brings us to the conclusion of the hearing of the Abduction of Chris Mosiane. I have a note in my hand here, which is apparently not very clear, but we welcome the students who came in whilst evidence was given and the matter proceeding from ...(indistinct) compass. You are very welcome. We will adjourn to rearrange for the hearing of the next matter. Thank you very much. COMMITTEE ADJOURNS