amntrans AMNESTY HEARINGS 2000-05-09 THOHOYANDOU 2 PATWANI FREDDY DAVHULA AM7692/97 https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=54170&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/amntrans/2000/200509th.htm CHAIRPERSON Mr Davhula, what language would you wish to use? MR DAVHULA Venda. PATWANI FREDDY DAVHULA (sworn states) EXAMINATION BY MR NDOU Thank you Mr Chairman and Honourable Members. Mr Davhula, you are also an applicant who has applied for amnesty and you have filed an affidavit with the Committee. Do you confirm that what is contained in this affidavit is your evidence? MR DAVHULA Yes, I do. MR NDOU Now, could you just explain to the Committee as to how it came about that you and a group of other people came to kill the deceased. MR DAVHULA This thing started from long before we could kill the deceased. If I could start it from the middle, I think I would be confused. In details, I would like to explain it in full because if I take it from, I just take points here and there, it will make me unable to relate the story in real order. MR NDOU Just explain ... CHAIRPERSON Mr Ndou, perhaps you must lead him. We haven't got time to listen to a thesis. MR NDOU You see, you have already filed an affidavit and the Court is aware of what is contained in the affidavit. What is important to you now is to explain to the Committee as to what role you played when the deceased was killed and how it came about that the deceased was killed, and also how you connect that with a political motive. MR DAVHULA Firstly in 1988 Sharon Mashike was killed. It is then that violence erupted. This Sharon Mashike was a member of our committee or a committee member of the Youth Congress of Manavhela, the Manavhela Youth Congress. She was one of the Secretaries and when she was killed, the community was touched and we as youth were also touched by her death. We held a very big meeting, it is there - because there at the homestead of Violet Movhe I have only learnt of Movhe when I was in court, but I know her as Marisha. There were so many VM cars, or government cars coming to her home and MP's which were there in that country used to frequent her home. So, we ended up suspecting that this lady participated in the killing of Sharon Mashike because the suspects were members of the, were the MP's. MR NDOU What position did she, did she hold a position in the community, this Violet? Did she hold any position of particular importance in the community? MR DAVHULA No, there was no position like that, that she held. MR NDOU Why were these government officials visiting her home, do you know? MR DAVHULA So I suspect that they were coming there to find some assistance of killing Sharon Mashike and I think what they were in need of, was medicine because the deceased was a Traditional Healer. MR NDOU I see. Now you can proceed. What then happened after you saw government vehicles with government officials coming to her home and the people suspected because she was a witch-doctor, that she was assisting them. JUDGE DE JAGER The trouble is, isn't there a difference between a Traditional Healer and a witch-doctor? If it is meant to be a witch-doctor, I think it should be said and he shouldn't, because in my mind I think there is a difference between the two. If I am wrong, please tell me. MR DAVHULA As far as I am concerned, I think there is no difference, because all those Traditional Doctors of the 1990's, those people who were in high ranks ... CHAIRPERSON Just hold it there. Mr van Rensburg ... MR VAN RENSBURG Yes, Mr Chairman, the reason why we actually called this case was because of the illness of the victim. She has just indicated to me, I can't understand her properly, but she needs some kind of assistance. If we can just get that ... CHAIRPERSON Are there any members of her family that know how to assist her? MR VAN RENSBURG As far as I know, she is the only one representing the family. If we can just adjourn for two minutes, I will just find out exactly how serious the problem is. CHAIRPERSON Mr van Rensburg, I understand that the lady who was representing the victims, took ill? MR VAN RENSBURG Yes, the person who was here on behalf of the victims, was actually the daughter of the deceased. Unfortunately she is too ill to attend the hearing further but she has given me the necessary instructions. CHAIRPERSON It is to be hoped that in view of this unfortunate set of circumstances, she will be assisted on her way home. Where are we now? MR NDOU Thank you Honourable Chair. I have just asked the witness to state as to how it came about that he attended that meeting on the 8th of February 1990. INTERPRETER The Interpreters cannot hear, the speaker's microphone is not on. MR DAVHULA The meeting started because a certain lady mysteriously disappeared. I don't remember her name. On that day, when she disappeared, we were surprised as to what happened. It is then that a very big meeting was held which was held in a sports field. I was the Chairman that day. My Secretary by then was Victor Mukheli. Then by that time Sharon Mashike was already dead. It is then that we came to a conclusion that the disappearance of the people is caused by this MP's which were frequenting the home of the deceased. By the deceased, I am referring to Violet Movhe. Because of those MP's, some of them were suspected of having killed Sharon Mashike. Those were the suspects, Joseph Mashembu and a certain Dabana. I think his name is Dabana, I am not sure about this one. It is then that we went to the place of the deceased, we were singing freedom songs. It was during the night. Another thing which gave us powers or energy to leave the sports ground and proceeded to the deceased's home is that while we were there in the sports field, government vehicles passed and those people from the government vehicles, shot to our direction. The car was like cream-white, but it was not that white, it was not so visible, because it was during the night. And then we organised ourselves and then we proceeded to the home of the deceased. On our arrival we started by standing next to the gate indicating that we are simply intending to take the deceased and to take her to the headman's kraal. MR NDOU Why were you to take her to the headman's kraal? MR DAVHULA It is because there in our country, we were no longer interested in her because once we sent the headman to tell her that we are against those MP's who were frequenting her place and instructed him to tell her that she must let those MP's to no longer frequent her place. Whenever we see these MP's, it reminded us of Sharon Mashike because whenever we see them, we happen to, if often happened that tears fall from us because we were very disturbed by the way she was disturbed. Even myself, I even witnessed her corpse. I also gave evidence as to the effect that I have seen the body into the gruesome way in which the parts were taken out from her body, or decapitated. CHAIRPERSON When did you go and speak to this lady to stop entertaining the political people? MR DAVHULA We sent the deceased in 1988, we sent the headman in 1988 when Sharon Mashike was shortly killed and then they came back with the answer that the Movhe people have agreed that those people will no longer come to their place. We were surprised to see when they were still frequenting her home again. MR NDOU Just try and make sure that we understand what you are saying. As I understand what you are saying, you are saying that Sharon Mashike was killed for muti purposes, is that correct? MR DAVHULA Yes, it is correct. MR NDOU And I also understand you further to say that amongst the people who were charged for her muti murder, were some of the government officials, is that correct? MR DAVHULA Yes, it is correct. MR NDOU And I understand you further to say that some of those government officials were charged with the muti murder, always frequented the deceased's kraal and the deceased was a witch-doctor, is that correct? MR DAVHULA Yes, it is true. They frequented the home all the time. MR NDOU I also understand you to be saying that it came to a point where the deceased was approached not to allow those government officials to visit her at home, is that right? MR DAVHULA Yes, it is true. MR NDOU And you say that happened in 1988? What I want to find out from you is as to whether those government officials stopped frequenting the deceased's home? MR DAVHULA Those government officials didn't stop frequenting the home of the deceased until such time that we killed the deceased. JUDGE DE JAGER I suppose they weren't found guilty because they were charged, but afterwards still visited the deceased, so perhaps Mr Ndou if you've got knowledge about it, could you tell us whether ... INTERPRETER The speaker's microphone was off. MR NDOU Yes, only, I think if I remember correctly, I think there were six accused and only one was convicted and the rest were acquitted. Amongst those two, the officials who were said to be visiting the deceased, was two of the five who were acquitted. They were two of the five who were acquitted. Now, could you explain then as to the reason why this crowd that had gathered at the sports field decided then to proceed to the deceased's kraal? MR DAVHULA Yes, I can explain the reason. MR NDOU Please do so. MR DAVHULA The group decided to go to the home of the deceased because it was to their opinion that the people who are mysteriously disappearing there at Manavhela, just like Walter Mueki and that one of the Reginani family and this one of Sharon Mashike, who was brutally killed for ritual murders. The group thought the deceased and those MP's who frequented her home, have got connections and I think because the deceased was a Traditional Healer, they were maybe in need of medicine to protect them, or they just wanted the Traditional Healer to help them so that when they commit ritual murders, she will mix the medicine. MR NDOU So you wanted her to leave the area? MR DAVHULA Yes, what we were really in need of, was for her to leave our village. MR NDOU What short-circuited your plans? MR DAVHULA It is because on questioning the deceased, she showed no interest in answering our questions. MR NDOU What questions? MR DAVHULA The question which I asked her is this, I asked her as to why she didn't follow the instructions we gave her through our headman regarding to no longer accept the MP's to frequent her home and we were questioning her why she didn't follow that instruction. The second one was why in this country, it seems there is a communication between her and the MP's regarding the mysterious disappearance of these people. MR NDOU Yes? MR DAVHULA The deceased didn't respond to that. I am the person who started to strike her by a stick which I took from a certain boy whom I don't recall or I didn't know him, because it was during the night. I hit her maybe at the shoulder or at the head, I am not sure where I struck her. MR NDOU Yes, what else did you do if any? MR DAVHULA What I did is there at the home of the deceased, before we took her to the scene where we killed her, I entered the house through the window, the furthest window, the window was on my left, the window faced west. There were people who were already inside the house. Those people who were in the house, it was Victor Mukheli who is my co-applicant and Daneil Mauba and others whom for now, I am unable to recall them, because there were so many inside the house. What I did there is that I dragged the deceased and took her outside to the group, through the window. Then I realised that Daneil Mauba said that he found the deceased inside the wardrobe and there inside the house, the lamp was on. I don't know who lit the lamp, but it was burning, the lamp was burning. MR NDOU That is all Mr Chairman. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR NDOU CHAIRPERSON Mr van Rensburg? CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR VAN RENSBURG Thank you Mr Chairperson. This deceased, can you perhaps tell us how did she make a living? MR DAVHULA I know that she was a Traditional Healer. MR VAN RENSBURG Did she practise that trade fulltime or part-time? MR DAVHULA I only know that she was a Traditional Healer, I don't know whether she was practising it fulltime or part-time, but what I know is that the people who used to frequent her home, were the MP's. MR VAN RENSBURG Yes. Is it not so that at her house, there was also a shibeen? MR DAVHULA Yes, there was a shibeen, but beer was sold there, but by that time she was no longer selling beer there, or liquor. MR VAN RENSBURG Yes. Now did it ever appear to you that the MP's that visited there, visited the shibeen? MR DAVHULA No, I think Dabana is a person who doesn't drink beer. MR VAN RENSBURG And the others? MR DAVHULA With the others, I am not sure, but with Dabana I am quite sure he is not a drinking person. MR VAN RENSBURG Yes, now regarding all the other strange persons with their official government vehicles, what I am asking you is, didn't you ever come to the conclusion that they were visiting that premises because they were buying beer from that place? MR DAVHULA We didn't come to that conclusion because whenever we saw them, we only remembered Sharon Mashike who was killed for ritual purposes, and those people were suspects. MR VAN RENSBURG Yes, it is in fact then my instructions on behalf of the victim or the victim's family to put it to you that that is the reason why so many people and so many government officials visited that premises, it is because they bought beer from that premises? MR DAVHULA But our opinion was that they were frequenting the place to be assisted from this Traditional Healer because we knew the deceased as a Traditional Healer. MR VAN RENSBURG Yes, I am still not, I still don't understand why didn't you make the connection, if a person sells beer and you know, we know now that you knew at the time that she was selling beer at that premises, why didn't, why couldn't you think so far as to the reason or the actual reason why they were visiting was because they were buying beer there? CHAIRPERSON Is that the actual reason? It is something that has been suggested to him? MR VAN RENSBURG That is in fact my instructions that that was the reason why so many government officials visited that premises. MR DAVHULA I want to indicate that in 1990, during that time when we killed the deceased, that shibeen was no longer existing. MR VAN RENSBURG When did it close down? MR DAVHULA I think it was in 1988. MR VAN RENSBURG Yes. This meeting that was held on the day that the deceased was killed, I think you have already testified it took place at the soccer stadium, is that correct, or the football field? MR DAVHULA Yes, it is correct, we used to hold the meeting there. MR VAN RENSBURG This meeting was attended by a lot of the soccer players, the young guys, is that correct? MR DAVHULA Yes, even soccer players were there, even the people of the community was there at that meeting. MR VAN RENSBURG What I want to find out from you, was it an actual organised political meeting, or was it a gathering, informal gathering of soccer players and spectators? MR DAVHULA No, it was politically organised. MR VAN RENSBURG Is it not so that at that very same meeting, certain matters concerning football was also discussed? MR DAVHULA On that day, nothing regarding soccer was mentioned. MR VAN RENSBURG Hm. Again I put it to you that on behalf of the victim, it is my instructions that it was not a political meeting, it was an informal meeting following on the soccer practise and at that specific meeting, soccer matters were also discussed before you turned your attention to the question of the deceased. MR DAVHULA As I have made an oath here to make sure that I am telling the truth and telling the truth, having already been sentenced, being not afraid of anything, I want to indicate that on that day we discussed about political matters and the soccer or football issues were not discussed. MR VAN RENSBURG If it was your instructions or your aim, if it was your aim to get the deceased to leave that area, shouldn't you have discussed that question with the chief so that he can issue her with a "trekpas"? MR DAVHULA It was a good idea but the headman had already given us the solution that the deceased will no longer allow the government officials to frequent her home, that is why we agreed with our chief in that regard. MR VAN RENSBURG So there was nothing stopping the headman to follow this proper procedure, is that correct? MR DAVHULA I think because our hearts were full of pain, thinking of the death of Sharon Mashike, we took the decision to that effect and diverted from our previous plan in which we were thinking of letting the deceased go to the chief and getting that "trakpas" and then we decided to kill her. JUDGE DE JAGER But you had the option to ask for a "trekpas" and that would have solved your problem, there was no need to murder her? Isn't that so? MR DAVHULA Our main aim in going to the deceased's home was to take her to the chief so that she can get a "trekpas", but noticing that the deceased was resisting, so even the youth were grabbing her, maybe to a distance from here to the next building. I think it is the whole yard, it is just like the length of the homestead because the homestead in the rural areas are so big. JUDGE DE JAGER But she was a lady, you could have carried her even, you were a lot, you could have forced her to go to the chief to get a "trekpas" or you could have gone to the chief without her and obtained a "trekpas" and told her to go, isn't that so? MR DAVHULA Yes, but seeing the circumstances there, on my arrival, the deceased was sitting down, showing that from the gate to where she is, the people were just pulling her. JUDGE DE JAGER So wasn't this killing quite disproportionate to achieving your objective, to get rid of her from the community? You could have given her a "trekpas"? MR DAVHULA May you please ask him that question again. CHAIRPERSON Can we just adjourn for five minutes please. We need to make arrangements for tomorrow. COMMITTEE ADJOURNS PATWANI FREDDY DAVHULA (s.u.o.) JUDGE DE JAGER Before the adjournment I asked you whether you couldn't have solved the problem by getting a "trekpas" instead of killing her. MR DAVHULA My Honour, that was possible. ADV SIGODI Tell me, this assault on the deceased which eventually killed her, started spontaneously, did I get you correctly? MR DAVHULA I agree that when she was grabbed outside the house, there were people who were beating her as they were taking her through the window. When arriving where she was sitting, as I asked her to stand up, let me first - I said "let us first ask her the questions". It is then that when she was responding, I first assaulted her, thinking that she would respond to our questions. ADV SIGODI The question I am asking is she died as a result of being assaulted by a number of people? MR DAVHULA That is true. ADV SIGODI How many people were there in your group, approximately? MR DAVHULA Between or approximately 500 to 600. ADV SIGODI How many do you think took part in assaulting her? Surely not all 500 to 600 assaulted her? MR DAVHULA Approximately 100. ADV SIGODI And what weapons were used to assault her? MR DAVHULA Stones and sticks were used to assault the deceased, even bigger sticks. ADV SIGODI Even what? MR DAVHULA Big sticks and stones. ADV SIGODI Wasn't she stabbed or anything? MR DAVHULA That I didn't notice that. ADV SIGODI Thank you. CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR VAN RENSBURG (continued) At the political meeting before the deceased was killed, there was no decision taken to kill her, is that correct? MR DAVHULA Yes, there was no decision for her to be killed, the only decision was for her to be taken to the chief so that she could get a "trekpas". MR VAN RENSBURG Okay, now explain to this meeting then in that circumstances, when did the political motivation to kill this person, come into being? MR DAVHULA May you please repeat your question? MR VAN RENSBURG Yes, what I wanted to know is you say that she was killed for political reasons, when was this political motive for killing her, when did that come to the foreground? MR DAVHULA In the meeting, that she must be killed was never mentioned, but it was indicated that she must get the "trekpas" from the headman. MR VAN RENSBURG You are not answering the question. We know now that it could only come into being after the meeting, because there was no such decision taken at the meeting. When after the meeting was over, did it come into existence? MR DAVHULA It is when the deceased was resisting and refusing to go to the chief and the people lost control and then they killed her. MR VAN RENSBURG In those circumstances sir, I put it to you that it was not politically motivated at all, but it was an instantaneous decision taken by the crowd on the spur of the moment and it had nothing to do with political motivation? MR DAVHULA As far as I am concerned, referring to the way in which we used to see the MP's frequenting her home, we linked that with politics, because whenever we see those MP's, we just think of Sharon Mashike and other people who were mysteriously disappearing. MR VAN RENSBURG I have no further questions, thank you Mr Chairperson. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR VAN RENSBURG CHAIRPERSON Mr Mapoma? CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR MAPOMA Thank you Mr Chairperson. You say in a meeting you only resolved that she be taken to the chief so that she can get a "trekpas", did you discuss what if she refuses the plan, what you were going to do? MR DAVHULA We once talked about that that if a person refused, then we must kill that person. MR MAPOMA Was that at the meeting that you arrived at that? MR DAVHULA Yes, that was in the meeting that if a person refused, we must deal with that person accordingly. MR MAPOMA Thank you Mr Chairperson. Nothing further. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MAPOMA CHAIRPERSON What do you mean "dealing with a person accordingly"? MR DAVHULA I mean to kill that person. CHAIRPERSON So that was the decision? MR DAVHULA No, in that meeting we have decided that we are going to take the deceased to the chief, but we also indicated that if she refused, we will finish with her. CHAIRPERSON Thank you. WITNESS EXCUSED MR NDOU I call Daneil Tshinyadzo Mauba.