amntrans AMNESTY HEARINGS 2000-05-23 JOHANNESBURG 2 MUHLAVA MUHLAVA AM 5735/97 ATTACK ON RITA TOWNSHIP AND MURDER OF MR SHINGANGE https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=54220&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/amntrans/2000/200523jh.htm MR KOOPEDI Thank you Chairperson. The next applicant is Muhlava Muhlava. Mr Muhlava has no problem with taking the prescribed oath Chairperson, thank you. CHAIRPERSON In what language is he going to testify? MR KOOPEDI He will testify in English Chairperson, thank you. MUHLAVA MUHLAVA (sworn states) CHAIRPERSON You may proceed Mr Koopedi. MR KOOPEDI Thank you Chairperson. I've just got an indication Chairperson that Mr Muhlava would read his statement in English and that statement would be evidence and should there be any questions, he would prefer to deal with that in Tsisonga. Thank you Chairperson. CHAIRPERSON He may proceed to do that. EXAMINATION BY MR KOOPEDI Mr Muhlava, is it correct that you are an applicant in this matter? MR MUHLAVA Yes. MR KOOPEDI The document I am showing you, Chairperson page eight of the bundle of documents, is this your application form? MR MUHLAVA Yes. MR KOOPEDI And page thirteen of the bundle of documents, there is a signature, is that your signature? MR MUHLAVA Yes. MR KOOPEDI Now would you briefly read your statement to the Committee? MR MUHLAVA "I joined the MK in 1980 inside the country. I was trained by one Jo ...(indistinct). I worked with him. Our main task was to transport people who - at some stage Jo was arrested. I then met up with John Ngobeni, my co-applicant. I confirm that I was present during the planning of the attack on the base at Nkuakua and I was a driver." MR KOOPEDI Now if one understands your evidence correctly, you were present in the planning of and the attack on the SADF at Nkuakua stadium, is that correct? MR MUHLAVA Yes. MR KOOPEDI And you also accompanied the people who went to execute this attack, but you remained in the car because you were the driver? MR MUHLAVA Yes. MR KOOPEDI You've heard the evidence of your co-applicant Mr Ngobeni and amongst others, he states that he also had a hand in your training, would you confirm that? MR MUHLAVA Yes. MR KOOPEDI That will be the evidence-in-chief of this applicant. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR KOOPEDI CHAIRPERSON Thank you Mr Koopedi. Ms Vilakazi. MS VILAKAZI No questions, Chairperson. NO QUESTIONS BY MS VILAKAZI CHAIRPERSON Ms Coleridge. MS COLERIDGE Thank you Chairperson.. CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS COLERIDGE What did you training consist of with Jo, that's Collins Thabane? MR MUHLAVA It was training me to know how to operate the Makarov pistol and how to use a hand grenade. MS COLERIDGE And how long did this training last for? MR MUHLAVA It was a person whom we used to stay together, so he used to train me everyday, but I can't remember how long it took. MS COLERIDGE You said you stayed with, did you stay with Jo or who were you living with? I don't understand that. MR MUHLAVA It was Collins, but we used to call him Jo. MS COLERIDGE And how long - you can't say - you joined Mr Ngobeni's group, when did you join that unit? MR MUHLAVA I joined it in late 89, 1989. MS COLERIDGE And what did Mr Ngobeni's training consist of? MR MUHLAVA He taught me how to use an AK 47. MS COLERIDGE Didn't you obtain that training under Collins Thabane's leadership? MR MUHLAVA Not at all, he was not having an AK 47. MS COLERIDGE So you were part of the attack at the stadium. You said that you were present during the planning stages, can you just elaborate on the planning stages? What did that entail? MR MUHLAVA I don't understand when you say that I should explain briefly. I don't understand the question, can you please repeat it? MS COLERIDGE Just on page four of the documentation that Mr Koopedi furnished us with, the last, the second, the third-last line, you said: "I confirm that I was present during the planning of the attack on the SADF base." Now I want to know what did that planning entail? MR MUHLAVA It entailed that we should see that not many innocent people should get injured, only soldiers should be affected. It also entailed to see their movements and what time should we attack them. MS COLERIDGE And how many people were part of this plan? MR MUHLAVA I think we were four. MS COLERIDGE Can you mention the people's names? MR MUHLAVA Yes, it was John Boveni, Mathousan, James, Sililo and myself. MS COLERIDGE So you were five? MR MUHLAVA Yes. MS COLERIDGE Did you have any weapons on you for this incident? MR MUHLAVA Myself, I was not having any gun, I was having only a hand grenade. MS COLERIDGE And did you have any contact with Mr Ngobeni's Commander? That's Timen or Jo Modise. MR MUHLAVA No, it was very difficult for us to meet those people. MS COLERIDGE Thank you Chairperson, I have no further questions. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS COLERIDGE CHAIRPERSON Any re-examination Mr Koopedi? MR KOOPEDI Nothing in re-exam thank you Chairperson. NO RE-EXAMINATION BY MR KOOPEDI CHAIRPERSON Adv Sigodi? ADV SIGODI No questions. CHAIRPERSON Adv Bosman? ADV BOSMAN I have no questions. CHAIRPERSON Mr Muhlava, were you also arrested? MR MUHLAVA No, I left the country sometime ...(indistinct - mike off) CHAIRPERSON I don't follow. When did you leave the country? After these operations were completed and before arrest? MR MUHLAVA Yes. CHAIRPERSON When did you leave the country? MR MUHLAVA It was 1990, somewhere around May. CHAIRPERSON Where did you go to? MR MUHLAVA I went to Swaziland and after Swaziland I went to Mozambique and from Mozambique I went to Tanzania. CHAIRPERSON Thank you. Anything arising from the Panel's questions? MR KOOPEDI Nothing from my side, thanks Chairperson. CHAIRPERSON Ms Vilakazi? MS VILAKAZI No questions, thanks Mr Chair. MS COLERIDGE No questions, thank you Chairperson. MR KOOPEDI Chair, that concludes the application. We close the application for Mr Muhlava and we're ready to proceed with Mr Mbhalati. Thank you. CHAIRPERSON Thank you very much Mr Muhlava, you are excused. WITNESS EXCUSED CHAIRPERSON What is the position with Mr Mbhalati? MR KOOPEDI Mr Mbhalati has no objection to taking the prescribed oath, Chairperson. He will also go through his statement in English. Should there be a problem, we would request the assistance of an interpreter for the Tsisonga language. Thank you.