amntrans AMNESTY HEARINGS 2000-07-10 PRETORIA 4 RUDI CRAUSE https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=54322&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/amntrans/2000/200710pr.htm RUDI CRAUSE (sworn states) CHAIRPERSON Please be seated. EXAMINATION BY MR VISSER Mr Crause, you are also an applicant in this incident. Do you once again confirm for the record Exhibit A and B? MR CRAUSE That is correct. MR VISSER And do you ask that it must be read with your application? MR CRAUSE Yes. MR VISSER You have already confirmed your application this morning, do you also confirm it concerning this incident? MR CRAUSE That is correct. MR VISSER At that stage you have already told us that you were the Commander at Zeerust Branch? MR CRAUSE Yes. MR VISSER And you were under the command of Gen Steyn, at that stage a Colonel, and Brig Loots and that stage Lt-Col Loots? MR CRAUSE Yes. MR VISSER That does not really matter, but it is correct that you were under their command and you executed their commands? MR CRAUSE That is correct. MR VISSER And you said that part of those instructions were that you have to provide information to Special Forces for them to act upon? MR CRAUSE That is correct. MR VISSER What can you remember from this specific incident? MR CRAUSE I was present during the planning meeting when authorisation was given to Special Forces on a house in Gaberone. MR VISSER Who gave the authorisation? MR CRAUSE I assumed that it was Kat Liebenberg because he was the most senior person there. MR VISSER You yourself did not act? MR CRAUSE No, I did not. MR VISSER So that authorisation will then be the authorisation to the Special Forces? MR CRAUSE Yes. MR VISSER Was there any of your senior officers from the Security Branch? MR CRAUSE Yes. The people who were present there, that I can remember were Gen Liebenberg, Gen Erasmus, Gen Schutte, Gen Steyn, Brig Loots, Brig Oosthuizen, Commandant Naude, Capt du Preez Smit. MR VISSER Yes, he is a co-applicant? MR CRAUSE Yes, that is correct. MR VISSER And did you see it as an authorised action? MR CRAUSE Yes. MR VISSER What can you remember today, what did you know about the activities of Mr Serache in Botswana? MR CRAUSE Information that was known to us was that he was involved in providing housing to people who was involved in the transportation of vehicles, and the infiltration of MK members into the Republic. MR VISSER Did you know anything about his military training? MR CRAUSE No, I didn't know anything about that. MR VISSER Did actions follow after the meeting? MR CRAUSE Yes. MR VISSER Who launched this action? MR CRAUSE It was launched by the Special Forces of the Defence Force. MR VISSER According to your knowledge, did you know if people were injured or killed in that incident? MR CRAUSE After the incident I heard that the house was destroyed, but that nobody was injured or killed. MR VISSER And is that the reason why ... CHAIRPERSON Sorry, did you say that nobody was injured or killed? MR CRAUSE Yes, that was the information that I had at that stage. MR VISSER Do you accept the information as it was provided by the Investigation Unit of the TRC on Mr Serache and Mr Moadira? MR CRAUSE I will accept it today, yes. MR VISSER And do you accept that the date of the incident was the 13th of February 1985? MR CRAUSE Yes. MR VISSER And you then ask for amnesty for any act or delict that occurred? MR CRAUSE That is correct. CHAIRPERSON Mr Visser, wouldn't it be the same as what you highlighted in terms of Mr Steyn's evidence? MR VISSER Yes, they will all be the same, Mr Chairperson. CHAIRPERSON The same with Loots? MR VISSER Yes. Their role was the same. Thank you Mr Chairman. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR VISSER CHAIRPERSON Mr Koopedi? MR KOOPEDI No questions for this witness, thank you Mr Chair. NO CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR KOOPEDI ADV STEENKAMP No questions, thank you Mr Chair. NO CROSS-EXAMINATION BY ADV STEENKAMP MR CRAUSE Thank you Mr Chairperson. WITNESS EXCUSED MR VISSER Mr Chairperson, I next call Mr du Preez Smit. His application is to be found at page 108 to 119 and he deals with this incident at page 112. He is available, he has no objection to taking the oath and he wishes to address you in Afrikaans.