amntrans AMNESTY HEARINGS 2000-07-10 PRETORIA 4 C J DU PREEZ SMIT AM4386/96 https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=54323&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/amntrans/2000/200710pr.htm CHAIRPERSON Is your surname du Preez Smit or just Smit? MR SMIT Just Smit. C J DU PREEZ SMIT (sworn states) CHAIRPERSON Please be seated. EXAMINATION BY MR VISSER Mr Smit, you are also an applicant in this incident concerning Mr Serache? MR SMIT That is correct yes. MR VISSER On page 112 of your application, your written application you followed the method in that a certain period, you were involved in certain incidents concerning Botswana and then you mentioned certain incidents during that period, is that correct? MR SMIT Yes, that is correct. MR VISSER And you mentioned or dealt with it as incident 1, the attack in Gaberone, is that the Serache incident? MR SMIT Yes. MR VISSER You studied Exhibit A and B? MR SMIT Yes. MR VISSER Concerning the section on Botswana, do you confirm that? MR SMIT Yes. MR VISSER Is this in line with your experience and knowledge? MR SMIT Yes. MR VISSER Do you confirm also the contents of the amnesty application? MR SMIT That is correct yes. MR VISSER Can you just tell the Committee what your knowledge and recollection is concerning the facts and circumstances of this attack on the facility of Mr Serache? MR SMIT Mr Chairperson, I was at the meeting, I mentioned it was in Zeerust, but it was between Zeerust and Ottosdal. Everybody that was mentioned that was present there, I can confirm that. There was also a Muller, he was a General, he is deceased. At this meeting we made the decision that the facility of Serache must be attacked by the Defence Force and that the people would be killed. MR VISSER Could we just get some more information concerning this. What was your rank and position in 1985? MR SMIT I was a Lieutenant and I worked under the command of Gen Crause. I was a field worker, and I was involved in the collection of information from Botswana. MR VISSER And the high command, was that Gen Steyn? MR SMIT Yes. MR VISSER This Mr Muller who you have just referred to, where did he come from? MR SMIT If I can remember correctly, he was the Security Branch Commander of Soweto. MR VISSER I think it was Gen Steyn who referred to it that Soweto or Brig Loots has referred to that they were also represented there? MR SMIT That is correct. MR VISSER The information that you could convey, did you have any role in that? MR SMIT Yes. MR VISSER Where did you get this information from? MR SMIT It came from my informants. MR VISSER Very well. Did you handle only informants or did you get your information from other sources? MR SMIT The informants played both roles. MR VISSER You heard what Gen Steyn and Brig Loots said concerning the type of information that was available concerning Mr Serache? MR SMIT That is correct. MR VISSER Do you agree with that? MR SMIT I agree with it, yes. MR VISSER Was there an urgency ... CHAIRPERSON Everybody had information about Mr Serache? MR SMIT Chairperson, our office in Zeerust had various members who had different informers operating in Botswana. CHAIRPERSON So there were different handlers? MR SMIT Yes, handlers. CHAIRPERSON And you in the office, or wherever brought it together? MR SMIT Yes, we brought everything together. CHAIRPERSON Did the Defence Force also have information at their disposal? MR SMIT That is correct. CHAIRPERSON And would the information then be co-ordinated at the planning session? MR SMIT Yes. CHAIRPERSON So that you had all the information together? MR SMIT That is correct. MR VISSER Did you have any knowledge of persons who were killed or injured during the attack? MR SMIT No Chairperson. MR VISSER Do you accept from the Investigating Team from the TRC that there were two people who were injured? MR SMIT That is correct. MR VISSER And that the date was the 13th of February 1985, that was the date of this attack? MR SMIT Yes, that could be correct, I accept it as such. MR VISSER Then you request amnesty also in the same regard as Gen Steyn for your share in this incident? MR SMIT That is correct. MR VISSER That is the evidence, thank you Chairperson. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR VISSER CHAIRPERSON Do you know whether these people from the Defence Force have applied for amnesty? MR SMIT No Chairperson. CHAIRPERSON Do you not know? MR SMIT No, I do not know. MR KOOPEDI There are no questions for this witness. NO CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR KOOPEDI ADV STEENKAMP I can maybe just assist, I have checked the records, and we haven't received any application for people that was indicated in these applications, except one person, Mr Kat Liebenberg, he is deceased. There is no reference to this specific incident in his application. NO CROSS-EXAMINATION BY ADV STEENKAMP WITNESS EXCUSED MR VISSER Chairperson, I am not sure whether I made myself quite clear, but you will not find apart from as my learned friend, Mr Steenkamp points out, Mr Kat Liebenberg, he was the only member of the Defence Force who applied for amnesty for cross border raids, none of the others have applied, due to the legal opinion which they have received. Those are the facts. MR MALAN Sorry, just before you proceed Mr Visser, but Kat Liebenberg didn't apply for this incident? MR VISSER I don't think he applied for this incident, but I remember that he was castigated because he was the only one that did apply. MR MALAN That is right. MR VISSER Initially, and I think there may have been one, it was also a general request yes, but he applied for the Nietverdiendt one specifically. Not as far as my knowledge is concerned, for this one. I call Gen Schutte Chairperson, he is ready to take the oath, he has no objection to taking the oath and he wishes to address you in Afrikaans.