amntrans AMNESTY HEARINGS DURBAN https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=54706&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/amntrans/durban/smuts.htm TRUTH AND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION DAY 1 - 12 AUGUST 1996 AMNESTY APPLICATION ADRIAAN SMUTS MR PRINSLOO The next witness is Adriaan Smuts, the second applicant. CHAIRPERSON Will you please stand. Do you swear that the evidence you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God. ADRIAAN SMUTS (sworn states) MR PRINSLOO Thank you Mr Chairman. MR SMUTS, what is your age? MR SMUTS I am forty-four years old. MR PRINSLOO Is it correct that on the 13th of September 1991 you were convicted in the Supreme Court by Mr Justice Galgut, and you were sentenced to death, is that correct? MR SMUTS Yes, that is correct. MR PRINSLOO And your offences of which you were convicted were seven charges of murder, twenty-eight charges of attempted murder and illegal possession of an unlicensed firearm and ammunition. MR SMUTS That is correct Mr Chairman MR PRINSLOO And the sentence of death was imposed? MR SMUTS MR PRINSLOO And the sentence was later commuted to twenty-five years imprisonment, is that correct? MR SMUTS Yes. MR PRINSLOO Is it correct that you are currently in prison at the Zonderwater Prison near Cullinan? MR SMUTS That is correct. MR PRINSLOO Mr Botha, can you tell us - MR SMUTS, rather, can you tell the Commission what your background is relating to your political affiliations? MR SMUTS I was raised in a conservative home. We were a religious family and we believed in the triune God. From a very early age onwards I attended political meetings with my father. And as a result of that, my objectives became the following - I believed also that these objectives were very important to me. I believed in the triune God, in the preservation and continued existence of the Afrikaans language and culture, self-determination and the continued existence of the Boer people in its own territory. The promotion of an independent Christian freedom at all costs. I worked in Potgietersrus, I worked in Potgietersrus on the mines as an artisan on the mines and that is where I saw what was happening in our country politically speaking. I saw that things were changing in the sense that things were affecting the Boer people. I then went to an AWB meeting in Potgietersrus, I listened to what was said and I listened to the objectives of the AWB. And I approved of these objectives because I realised that these people were actually fighting the Afrikaner cause. I also became a member of the CP at the time. I then left Potgietersrus, I moved to Richards Bay. When I arrived there, there was no branch of the AWB at the time. One day when I came home from work I saw some AWB posters announcing an AWB meeting to be held and I went to the particular meeting. Mr Eugene Terreblanche was present at the meeting and he led the meeting. When I arrived there, Mr Botha and Mr Marais were present at his home. Mr Botha informed me of the attack which had taken place in Durban, in which approximately 30 PAC members had been involved. They had entered a shop and stolen knives and attacked White people on the beach front. We then decided that we would act against these attackers. We then left for Durban that same evening. We drove to Durban and planned to attack a taxi. We did find a taxi and started following it, but the taxi turned off from the freeway and we then decided to abort that particular attack. We decided that it was late at night and that we should rather return home, and then we decided to go to a petrol station to buy some cooldrink before returning home. Whilst we were drinking our cooldrinks a bus drove past and we decided that we would launch the attack at the bus. We followed the bus and when we overtook the bus, Mr Botha gave the order to fire. We fired at the bus. We drove past the bus and made a U-turn and came back. MR PRINSLOO MR SMUTS, on that particular evening, did you act of your own accord or how did it happen? MR SMUTS I acted on the instructions of Mr Botha. MR PRINSLOO And did you believe that Mr Botha was acting on his own accord or on behalf of some organisation? MR SMUTS MR PRINSLOO And from what organisation would that have been? MR SMUTS From the Orde Boerevolk. MR PRINSLOO MR SMUTS, at your trial you pleaded guilty, is that correct? MR SMUTS Yes. MR PRINSLOO You did not testify yourself, but Mr Botha did? MR SMUTS Yes. MR PRINSLOO Now today, how do you feel about the act committed by yourself on that day? MR SMUTS MR PRINSLOO MR SMUTS on that day you were in possession of a firearm, an unlicensed firearm, correct? And you also pleaded guilty to that charge? MR SMUTS That is correct. MR PRINSLOO You - you also pleaded guilty to possession of ammunition? MR SMUTS Yes. MR PRINSLOO Now for what purpose were you in possession of that firearm and that ammunition? MR SMUTS On that evening I was in possession of the firearm for the purpose of launching an attack as a counter-measure to the attack which had taken place that morning. MR PRINSLOO Where did you get the weapon? MR SMUTS I obtained the weapon from Mr Botha. MR PRINSLOO What calibre was this weapon? MR SMUTS It was an FN. MR PRINSLOO Pardon me? It was an FN? MR SMUTS Yes, that is correct. MR PRINSLOO MR SMUTS, you are applying for amnesty for murder, attempted murder and illegal possession of the firearm and ammunition, is that correct? MR SMUTS Yes. MR PRINSLOO Thank you Mr Chairman. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS CHAIRPERSON Do you have any questions to put to this witness? MR WILKINSON No, thank you. NO CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR WILKINSON CHAIRPERSON Mr Brink? CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR BRINK MR SMUTS I will ask my questions in English, but you may answer in Afrikaans. MR SMUTS Is it possible that I could have an interpreter. MR BRINK To what level of education did you achieve? MR SMUTS I reached standard nine. MR BRINK And when did you commence to work? MR SMUTS [Indistinct] MR BRINK When did you commence employment? MR SMUTS MR BRINK Now on the day in question when the bus was followed and shot at, you said that you and your colleagues had decided to come to Durban and act against the attackers, in other words the PAC people, is that correct? MR SMUTS Yes, that is correct. MR BRINK How was it that you proposed to act against them? MR SMUTS We planned, on our way to Durban, to attack a taxi. MR BRINK Any taxi? MR SMUTS Any taxi with Black passengers, Mr Chairman. MR BRINK MR SMUTS Because the taxi turned away from the freeway into a residential area, a built-up area. MR BRINK Inhabited by Blacks? MR SMUTS Correct. MR BRINK And did you not abort that attack on the taxi because you were scared of getting caught? MR SMUTS No, Mr Chairman. MR BRINK MR SMUTS No, it was not meant to be an act of revenge. It was not meant to be retaliation. We wanted to do something to show the Government of the day and any organisation which was a threat to the freedom of the Boer people. We wanted to oppose any such organisation and we wanted to weaken, soften the Government and to show them that the Orde Boerevolk and the Boer people would not tolerate such attacks. MR BRINK When you decided to abort the attack against the taxi, why did you then proceed to shoot the bus? MR SMUTS When we stopped to drink cooldrinks and the bus passed us, we saw that this was the target. This was the appropriate target to bring home the message which we were trying to put across. MR BRINK MR SMUTS Because the taxi drove away into a residential and built-up area, and if we had shot at the taxi many more people would have been injured. The residents in the township area would have perhaps have been killed. MR BRINK MR SMUTS No, it was not our purpose to kill as many people as possible. Our purpose was just to prove that these attacks were launched against Boer people, that we would retaliate, that we would hit back. There was no point in just shooting people at random, then we could have done that in Richards Bay for instance and not go to Durban. MR BRINK MR SMUTS We played according to the rules laid down by the PAC that with their attack that morning. They went to the beach front and killed people and injured them. MR BRINK MR SMUTS Mr Chairman, in any war you want to continue to fight another day, you cannot just allow people to kill you, or catch you. We wanted to continue the struggle. We did not want to terminate it on that particular evening. MR BRINK MR SMUTS But we aborted that attack and went and had our cooldrinks and then started following the bus and we then attacked the bus. And our purpose in so doing was to send a message to the Government and bodies and parties such as the ANC and the PAC who were threats to the Boer nation. MR BRINK Why did you not consider attacking the PAC offices in Durban? You could have found out where they were. MR SMUTS MR BRINK When you left Richards Bay to drive to Durban, was it your intention to kill people? MR SMUTS Mr Chairman, in any war, when you attack, your aim is to kill people and I regarded myself as a soldier of the Orde Boerevolk and of the Boer people as a whole. MR BRINK My question was, when you left Richards Bay for Durban, did you have it in mind to kill people? MR SMUTS MR BRINK To kill people whether they were members of the ANC or not - PAC or not? Just kill anyone with a black skin? Was that your intention? MR SMUTS No, that was not my intention to kill anybody with a black skin. My intention was to play according to the same rules established that morning by the PAC. They also attacked people purely on the basis of their skin colour. MR BRINK So your intention was to kill someone whose skin colour was different from yours, regardless of whether they were PAC or not? MR SMUTS The PAC acted against Whites. I was a soldier of the Orde Boerevolk and I acted against Black people that night. MR BRINK MR SMUTS MR BRINK So what you did was a revenge killing, MR SMUTS? MR SMUTS No. MR BRINK What was it? MR SMUTS It was as I said previously in my - that we wanted to show the government, the PAC and the ANC that we would fight back if there were attacks of this kind. We tried to soften the Government, send them a message to yield to the demands for a Boerestaat where we, us Whites could govern ourselves and pursue our own ideals, culture and religion as we would allow for any other nation and people. MR BRINK MR SMUTS That is correct. MR BRINK MR SMUTS No, I reacted because I believed in Mr Botha, he was my commanding officer in the AWB and the oath form which I had signed, I believe that came from people higher up than Mr Botha. MR BRINK Just tell me, remind me, please. When did you sign that oath? MR SMUTS The evening of the 9th of October 1990. MR BRINK Before going to Durban? MR SMUTS That is correct. MR BRINK What was the need to take the oath then? You could have accompanied Botha and Marais without having signed that oath. Your intention was to kill people, you told us, so why sign the oath? MR SMUTS No-one could belong to the Orde Boerevolk without the sworn oath, and I believed what was set out in that oath. I believed that that would promote the ideals for which I also stood and believed in. MR BRINK But you signed the oath after you had made a conscious decision to go to Durban to kill, is that not correct? MR SMUTS No, I first signed the oath, and then we drove to Durban. MR BRINK MR SMUTS Correct. MR BRINK You discussed the fact that the PAC or alleged PAC members had killed Whites in Durban? MR SMUTS Correct. MR BRINK And you discussed going to Durban to wreak some sort of havoc or vengeance on Black people, is that correct? MR SMUTS That is correct, but the weerwraak ... [intervention] MR BRINK Yes. And then you signed the oath. MR SMUTS NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR BRINK JUDGE NGOEPE MR SMUTS, you said in your evidence-in-chief that about 30 people, PAC people launched an attack on certain Whites in Durban that morning. MR SMUTS JUDGE NGOEPE MR SMUTS JUDGE NGOEPE The essence of my question is, attacks against whom? MR SMUTS Against Black people. JUDGE NGOEPE Any Black people? MR SMUTS Well those were the rules that the PAC had laid down that morning. They attacked any Whites. JUDGE NGOEPE Let me put it like this. Let us accept that, that evening in that bus, there were Whites wearing PAC T-shirts. The people who - the Whites were supporters of the PAC, what would you have done in such a case? MR SMUTS JUDGE NGOEPE MR SMUTS I believe, for example, if it had been Whites with PAC T-shirts who had murdered those people and that evening I could have found Whites who belonged to the PAC, then I would have done the same. JUDGE NGOEPE MR SMUTS JUDGE NGOEPE MR SMUTS JUDGE NGOEPE Irrespective of whether those people belonged to the PAC, it was good enough that they were Black - if they were Black that was quite good enough. MR SMUTS JUDGE NGOEPE MR SMUTS It was a military strategy. JUDGE NGOEPE MR SMUTS That is right because that morning Whites had been attacked, so it was good if they were Blacks. MS KHAMPEPE MR SMUTS, why did you believe that Mr Botha was acting on the orders of the Orde Boerevolk? MR SMUTS Because Mr Botha told me that he had already sworn the oath. MS KHAMPEPE But did he at that time tell you that he was acting in his capacity as the leader of the Orde Boerevolk? MR SMUTS MS KHAMPEPE When was the decision to attack the taxi made? MR SMUTS On the way to Durban. MS KHAMPEPE So before you left for Durban, you had not decided on who the target would be for your counter-attack? MR SMUTS MS KHAMPEPE Did you react to the news - let me first ask this, how did you react to the news when you heard that PAC members or alleged members of the PAC, had attacked Whites at the beach front, what was your reaction? MR SMUTS When Mr Botha told me about this, I was shocked because we believed that the Black on Black violence would actually change to Black on White violence. MS KHAMPEPE Did you react the way you did because you were shocked that Blacks had attacked Whites or you reacted because a Black - members of a Black political organisation had attacked Whites? MR SMUTS I reacted that way because an organisation which was a threat to the Boer people, had attacked. That is why I reacted in that way. MS KHAMPEPE And what belief did you have that the people had launched the attack, were in fact members of the PAC? MR SMUTS I was going by what Mr Botha had told me because he was my cell leader and I did not think that he would tell lies about such a thing. And he told me that he had heard that on news broadcasts during that day. MS KHAMPEPE MR SMUTS MS KHAMPEPE Could you have believed that a mission could have been carried out under instructions of the AWB, could you have believed that way at the time? MR SMUTS No, because Mr Botha explicitly told me that the instructions came from the Orde Boerevolk and that this attack would be launched under the banner and instructions of the Orde Boerevolk. MS KHAMPEPE Thank you. CHAIRPERSON Did you know when Mr Botha had received those instructions from the Orde Boerevolk? MR SMUTS No. MS KHAMPEPE Do you know how he received those instructions? MR SMUTS Mr Botha just one day told me that he had been to a meeting of the AWB, and that the Orde Boerevolk had approached him there. CHAIRPERSON MR SMUTS Mr Botha just told me that the Orde Boerevolk had given orders that as far as politically orchestrated violence was concerned, a violence in which Whites were killed, for every one White person that died, ten Blacks would be killed. Ten Blacks had to die. CHAIRPERSON Is that what he told you on the evening of this incident? MR SMUTS No, he told me this on the occasion when he gave me this oath form to look at and discuss. MR PRINSLOO No re-examination thank you, Mr Chairman. NO RE-EXAMINATION BY MR PRINSLOO MR WILKINSON Thank you very much. CHAIRPERSON Is Mr Purshotam still here? Yes. Mr Purshotam do you have any questions to put to this witness? MR PURSHOTAM No. NO CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR PURSHOTAM CHAIRPERSON Thank you. WITNESS EXCUSED