amntrans AMNESTY HEARING 1998-03-26 PRETORIA 4 CORNELIUS RUDOLPH PYPER https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=54887&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/amntrans/pta/lotteri2.htm CHAIRPERSON Everybody, Mr De Koning. EXAMINATION BY MR DE KONING Chairperson, with your permission I call the Second Applicant to testify under oath. Mr Pyper, will you take the oath or confirm that you are speaking the truth? Will you please stand to take the oath? CORNELIUS RUDOLPH PYPER (Sworn states) MR DE KONING Mr Pyper, what are your full names? MR PYPER I am Cornelius Rudolph Pyper. MR DE KONING Thank you Chairperson. Just by introduction, I do not aim to submit an Affidavit to you. Mr Pyper, could you tell the Committee what your date of birth is. MR PYPER I was born in 1967 on the 26th December. MR DE KONING And what is your age in years currently? MR PYPER I am currently 30 years old. MR DE KONING And on the 24th April 1994, how old were you then? MR PYPER I was 26 then. MR DE KONING What is your marital status? MR PYPER I am divorced. MR DE KONING And on the 27th April 1994 what was your marital status then? MR PYPER At that point I was married. MR DE KONING Do you have any dependants? MR PYPER I have a small daughter of 6. MR DE KONING Could you tell us what your highest educational qualification or school qualification is? Where did you begin your school career? MR PYPER Primary school. I began in ...[inaudible] and I completed Standard 9, after which I left school and began working. MR DE KONING Did you complete any military service? MR PYPER Yes. I completed 2 years of military service, for 2 years at Bloemfontein Parachute Battalion in Tempe, from the beginning of 1987 until the end of 1988. MR DE KONING And during those two years did you perform any border duty? MR PYPER Yes I did. In 1988 I spent an entire year on the border. MR DE KONING And thus actively involved with the so-called border war? MR PYPER MR DE KONING I would like for you to explain to the Committee what the impact of your military duty and the so-called border duty was on you and your life. MR PYPER It was explained to us on a daily basis that the ANC and the PAC and the Swapo and Cuban powers, any communist powers were our enemies and we were told that the enemy was infiltrating our country and that many of them had at that point, they were busy taking away our country and that we had to prevent this at all costs and every day the impression was created with us that these people may not take over our country. MR DE KONING MR PYPER In 1989 I began work at Kloofmyn. MR DE KONING As what? MR PYPER As a stoker, a miner. MR DE KONING And did you become involved in any way with politics in any regard? MR PYPER MR DE KONING Which organisation or political party was this? MR PYPER It was the AWB. MR DE KONING Can you remember who the speaker was? MR PYPER MR DE KONING And did you remain involved in any way with that organisation since 1989? MR PYPER MR DE KONING And after that event, were you actively or in any way involved with the AWB? MR PYPER I attended meetings. I had friends who were in the AWB and we often met in groups and discussed certain issues with regard to the AWB. MR DE KONING Were you involved with any other political organisation as a member or a supporter or in any other way? MR PYPER MR DE KONING Mr Pyper, yesterday evidence was given by Mr De Bruin that you at a certain point in 1992 and 1993 attended AWB meetings with him, is that true? MR PYPER MR DE KONING He also testified that at certain times he saw you fill in a form applying for membership. Can you tell us what your comment on that is? MR PYPER That is correct. In 1989 when I became a member of the AWB we did not receive membership cards. I received a telephone number from women working at the AWB offices. I phoned her and she told me that we should just be patient because we would receive our membership cards in the post. MR DE KONING Did you receive any such membership card from the AWB? MR PYPER No. MR DE KONING Then I would like to ask you whether you still have any connection with the AWB at this point? MR PYPER I have sworn off the AWB and at this point I would like nothing further to do with them. MR DE KONING Can you tell us at the time whether at the time of the incident for which you are in prison, on the 27th April 1994, at that time were you in possession of a firearm or did you have a firearm licence? MR PYPER No I did not. MR DE KONING MR PYPER That is correct. MR DE KONING Did you at any point before that incident attempt to purchase a firearm? MR PYPER That is correct. With the assistance of Gert De Bruin we applied for old 303 rifles. MR DE KONING I assume that those were the rifles that were used in the military? MR PYPER We applied for ownership of these old rifles. Gert De Bruin brought some application forms for us but we did not acquire the weapons. MR DE KONING When you refer to "we", who do you mean? MR PYPER That is myself and Mr Wheeler. MR DE KONING That is the First Applicant? MR PYPER Yes. MR DE KONING Then on the 27th April 1994 did you own a vehicle of your own? MR PYPER No. MR DE KONING You have informed us of your involvement, more specifically the AWB, ... [no English translation] MR PYPER ...[no English translation] MR DE KONING MR PYPER I met Mr De Bruin I think in the beginning of 1992. MR DE KONING Where did you meet him? MR PYPER At the mine where I worked, Osberg Mine at that time. Gert De Bruin spoke a lot of right wing politics with us and that is basically how we became friends. That is all that I have to say. MR DE KONING Did you attend political meetings or AWB meetings together? MR PYPER That is correct. MR DE KONING Regularly? MR PYPER Regularly, yes. MR DE KONING Do you have any recollection of how long before the 27th April your last meeting of the AWB was? MR PYPER It was shortly before the 27th April 1994, I should say approximately ten days before that date. MR DE KONING MR PYPER Well among others it was said that the Communist would get the most votes during the forthcoming elections. It was a fact. MR DE KONING Could I just interrupt you for a moment? Who was the Communist or who would that have been? MR PYPER With regards to the information distributed at these meetings, according to the AWB it was the ANC, the SACP and any non white party which wanted to oppress and murder the Afrikaner, they were all perceived as communists by us. MR DE KONING Can you tell me what the message was which was conveyed at these meetings? MR PYPER It was said that the communists wanted to take over our country and that during the elections, at all costs action should be taken to stop the elections from proceeding. It was not actually said by a speaker but that is the message that was discussed among the people, that is the message that we received. And it was expressly said to us that this election should not proceed because the communists would take over. MR DE KONING When you say that it was not said in so many words by a speaker, what exactly do you mean? MR PYPER Before the elections people gathered at the meetings and would stand around in groups talking and it was said and discussed what each individuals role would be during the electoral period and it was said that people would go out and sow chaos during the electoral period. That everybody would make a contribution to the struggle. It was said that everybody would contribute to the struggle and so doing, disrupt the elections, leading to the announcement of a state of emergency and setting aside the elections. MR DE KONING MR PYPER MR DE KONING Was violence ever suggested or discussed? MR PYPER On a daily basis, at all the meetings which I attended violence was mentioned and discussions were held about the methods which we would use if the communists wanted to take over our country. Violence was discussed quite often. MR DE KONING MR PYPER Those meetings that I attended with him, at these meetings, me and other AWB members which I knew would stand to one side with Mr Wheeler and discuss certain things while De Bruin was always standing amongst the leadership figures and it was my impression that he occupied a high rank within the AWB structure. MR DE KONING Just to come back to the prior aspect which you were talking about when I asked you whether or not violence and such things were encouraged, Mr De Bruin and Mr Wheeler testified yesterday that there was talk of war at these meetings. Did you ever hear anything like that? MR PYPER That is correct, it was discussed. It was said that with the disruption of the elections that after the electoral period, the country would be toppled into a state of war. MR DE KONING And was there any talk of war directly surrounding the elections? MR PYPER Yes. MR DE KONING Can you tell us what was said or what the impression was which you received? MR PYPER It was said that the members of the AWB, as well as all Afrikaners, right wing Afrikaners that is had to prepare themselves. That emergency supplies should be purchased, that firearms should be acquired, that they should keep themselves prepared because there existed no doubt that over the electoral period the country would be toppled into a state of chaos and that a war would break out. MR DE KONING Did you do these things, such as purchasing emergency supplies and preparing yourself in this manner? MR PYPER MR DE KONING Did these discussions ever feature in contact which you had with Mr De Bruin? MR PYPER Could you repeat the question? MR DE KONING These discussions regarding the mobilisation and the purchasing of supplies in order to arm yourself, did this ever surface in discussions with Mr De Bruin? MR PYPER That is correct. MR DE KONING MR PYPER Yes, in my eyes he was a leader. MR DE KONING MR PYPER MR DE KONING If we consider that which you have already told us regarding discussions and speeches at the AWB meetings, were you personally prepared to participate in that which was promoted, suggested and said at AWB meetings? MR PYPER Yes, at all AWB meetings it was told to us that the Afrikaner nations would be oppressed and I was completely prepared to make myself available to prevent this kind of oppression. MR DE KONING Are you still as prepared today? MR PYPER No, not at all. MR DE KONING Why not? MR PYPER Because my opinion regarding that which I believed and my belief was that the ANC was a communist oriented organisation has proven to be. MR DE KONING Where did you cultivate these convictions? MR PYPER Well I began to cultivate these convictions quite early in my childhood. It became quite clear to me then and when I was in the military. The right wing politics also managed to entrench this conviction within me. MR DE KONING And you were busy telling us that today you have a different opinion regarding this. Is there something else which you wanted to add before I interrupted you. MR PYPER No. MR DE KONING Then on the 27th April 1994 during the evening you and Mr Wheeler committed a murder and I want you to tell the Committee exactly how that day transpired in reasonable detail but you can leave out the unnecessary detail. MR PYPER Me and Mr Wheeler met in the morning, I think he came to my home, if I remember correctly. His wife was with him. My daughter was feeling a little ill and we took her to the doctor in Westonaria then we drove past the voting halls and we saw that there were queues and queues of people who were standing in line to vote and about 90% of them were black. MR DE KONING Might I interrupt? Did you vote on the 27th April 1994? MR PYPER MR DE KONING Why not. MR PYPER We were requested by the AWB not to vote. MR DE KONING Very well, you may proceed. Just one moment, do you know whether Mr Wheeler voted? MR PYPER He did not vote. MR DE KONING Was this because of the request which was made to you from the AWB? MR PYPER MR DE KONING What was the purpose of that, can you recall? MR PYPER It was announced on the radio that bombs had exploded somewhere in the East Rand, I think it was at the airport. MR DE KONING MR PYPER Well we wanted to know whether or not he had received any further information regarding these bomb explosions. And we found him there at his home. MR DE KONING De Bruin said yesterday, and I quote from paragraph 13 of his Affidavit, he said, "That I have told the two Applicants that the boer resistance had begun and that more bomb explosions would occur." What did you think of that? MR PYPER The mere fact that he said that it had begun triggered it within me that the war had begun, that the resistance had begun. The opposition to the elections had begun. The process of destruction had begun and that is the inference that I made from his words. MR DE KONING MR PYPER I had no doubt, it was very clear to me that that which the AWB had preached had begun. That we had to go out and disrupt the elections and that we had to prevent that the communists take over our country. That was very clear to me. MR DE KONING Just to ask it in very simple terms, were you prepared and did you decide upon that event to contribute? MR PYPER Yes. MR DE KONING Would you contribute in a violent way? MR PYPER MR DE KONING MR PYPER MR DE KONING At that point was there any plan in existence with you and Wheeler regarding what you were going to do? MR PYPER There was definitely a plan. However we were not 100% sure as to what we were going to do but there was definitely a plan that we would contribute to this resistance. MR DE KONING Did you alone or in co-operation with anyone ever have the idea to acquire or obtain a bomb or an explosive device and plant it somewhere? MR PYPER Yes. We MR DE KONING When you say we, who were you referring to? MR PYPER Me, Wheeler and some other rightists who work with us on the mine discussed the possibilities. MR DE KONING Did you try to do anything specific regarding that? MR PYPER A long time before the election we wanted to bring out explosives in order to commit acts with explosives but we decided to wait first and devise a better plan and the closer we got to the elections, the more difficult it became to bring explosives out of the mines. MR DE KONING Why? MR PYPER Because the mine security was sharpened, especially during the electoral period and this made the situation more problematic. MR DE KONING MR PYPER MR DE KONING MR PYPER MR DE KONING What was the purpose behind that? MR PYPER Are you referring to the evening? MR DE KONING MR PYPER MR DE KONING MR PYPER Well we went there to discuss the things that had happened, the bomb explosions and Mr Wheeler needed certain parts for his car. MR DE KONING Is that with the second occasion, in the evening? MR PYPER Do you mean before we drove out that evening? MR DE KONING MR PYPER MR DE KONING Where did you drive to? MR PYPER We drove in the direction of Randfontein. It was a double lane road, between Randfontein and Westonaria. MR DE KONING What happened then? MR PYPER We saw a taxi vehicle on the road. The road was very quiet and we decided that that would be our target because there were no other witnesses or any other people present who would be able to identify us or perhaps attack us if I might put it that way. We immobilised the target and decided that that would be our target. Mr Wheeler cocked the shotgun, handed it over to me, I leaned out the window, he moved in next to the vehicle, I fired a shot and we drove on. Mr Wheeler looked in his rear view mirror and he mentioned to me that the vehicle was pulling up off the road. MR DE KONING Can you tell us today whether you remember or whether you know how many people were in the vehicle which you fired at? MR PYPER Well it was dark. I could only see the silhouette of the driver, I cannot say how many people were in the vehicle. MR DE KONING Might I ask you why you would be shooting at a mini bus taxi? MR PYPER I believed at that point that people were using mini bus taxis in order to go to the voting halls and that a mini bus taxi with a number of people inside, along with other rightists who were committing acts of terror that this would contribute to the fear and doubt among people to go and vote and it would create chaos and lead to the announcement of a state of emergency so that the elections could be stopped. MR DE KONING MR PYPER Well he was the driver and I believed that if I shot him there would be a very good chance that the vehicle would be involved in an accident. MR DE KONING And that would create even greater chaos? MR PYPER That is correct. MR DE KONING MR PYPER MR DE KONING MR PYPER MR DE KONING Mr Pyper, in your Application which has been presented to the Commission, you mention that your younger brother was killed. Did this have any kind of influence on these events and if so, could you explain why? MR PYPER My brother was murdered by four black men with an AK47. This created the idea immediately within my mind that it was part of the communist onslaught. MR DE KONING Why would that be? MR PYPER MR DE KONING Where did you obtain this information? MR PYPER This was taught to us in the Defence Force, that the communists used AK47. They originally came from Russia which was a communist country. MR DE KONING You may proceed. What was the involvement of the death of your brother with the events on the 27th April 1994? Was this an act of revenge? MR PYPER MR DE KONING To summarise it very briefly, what was your motive for this act which you committed on the 27th? MR PYPER My motive was to cause disruption and destruction along with other right wingers and so to disrupt the elections so that a state of emergency would be called out, that the election would be cancelled and thereby we hoped to prevent the communists taking power. MR DE KONING You have already told us that you are of a different view today? MR PYPER MR DE KONING Mr Pyper, after you were arrested, or perhaps I should ask you first to explain to us, you were arrested on the following day? MR PYPER MR DE KONING MR PYPER Yes. MR DE KONING I would like you to tell the Committee how that happened, that you had this contact with them. MR PYPER MR DE KONING And then you saw the father of the deceased, face to face? MR PYPER MR DE KONING MR PYPER When we arrived at the offices I said that I wanted to see him alone. My wife and I went into the office with him, just the three of us and we closed the door behind us. I told him that I was sorry for what had happened. I told him that I understood the pain that he was suffering and I said that I had acted wrongly and I had no right to do it to him. He said that he forgave me. MR DE KONING Were you really sorry, on the occasion when you said so? MR PYPER Yes, I really was sorry. MR DE KONING MR PYPER The idea which the AWB created in my mind regarding the ANC, it became clear to me that they had lied to me or at the very least, created dubious images in my mind. They thought that the ANC and other communist parties would oppress us and actually exterminate us and at the stage when I apologised, I realised that everything was progressing normally. MR DE KONING MR PYPER Yes. MR DE KONING Mr Pyper, during the bail application and I think also during your trial and specifically in your explanation of Plea which you submitted to the Court during your trial, this was the trial before Mr Justice Mynhardt it was denied on your behalf that this act had ...[inaudible] with a political motive, is that correct? MR PYPER Yes. MR DE KONING Is it true that it was not committed with a political motive? MR PYPER Today it is not true. At that stage I said so. MR DE KONING Why did you say so at that stage? MR PYPER Mr Wheeler and I discussed this and we realised that we were actually facing the death sentence, we were going to be hanged and there and then we decided that we wanted to avoid that and therefore should not follow this political motive line. MR DE KONING So you told a conscious lie and made a misrepresentation to the Court to try to escape being punished for political motives? MR PYPER MR DE KONING Please bear with me for a moment, Chairperson. Mr Pyper, yesterday reference was made to the Mineworkers Union, an organisation which is also active on the mine. Were you involved in them in any way? MR PYPER Yes. MR DE KONING Did they convey political viewpoints to people? MR PYPER Yes, at every meeting that we attended, right wing political views were conveyed to us. MR DE KONING Thank you Chairperson. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR DE KONING CHAIRPERSON Yes, thank you. Are we going to carry on the same order or are you prepared to go now Mr Prinsloo? MR PRINSLOO I am prepared to continue, thank you. CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR PRINSLOO MR PYPER Yes I know that there was a stage when some sealer or sealant for the car was to be obtained. MR PRINSLOO MR PYPER MR PRINSLOO MR PYPER MR PRINSLOO Mr Wheeler also referred yesterday to the fact that on the day of the 27th April the reference was made to the possibility of committing an act of terror by means of explosives although this was never carried out? MR PYPER MR PRINSLOO No further questions thank you Chairperson. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR PRINSLOO CHAIRPERSON Mr Botha, do you have questions? MR BOTHA Thank you Mr Chairman. CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR BOTHA Mr Pyper, the last portion of your evidence in chief contained a reference to the meeting between yourself and Mr Nelson Papiyana, the father of the deceased? MR PYPER MR BOTHA MR PYPER No, not at all. MR BOTHA Would you agree with me that the impression which one immediately gets from Mr Nelson Papiyana and say this for lack of a better description that he is a big man? He displayed a big spirit in meeting the killer of his son? MR PYPER MR BOTHA On this occasion you said repeatedly to Mr Papiyana that, you spoke English to him, is that correct? MR PYPER MR BOTHA According to what I read in the Record of the Supreme Court Case, you are also a Christian? MR PYPER MR BOTHA MR PYPER MR BOTHA MR PYPER Yes. MR BOTHA In your evidence in chief you said today that you were in town and you went to the doctor and then you bought certain things and went home? MR PYPER MR BOTHA This word, "things", what exactly are you referring to, what did you purchase? MR PYPER MR BOTHA Alcohol, liquor? MR PYPER MR BOTHA 12, 750ml bottles of beer? MR PYPER MR BOTHA That is according to the evidence in the Supreme Court. Apart from these 12 bottles, that you purchased, can you tell us whether you later, on that day bought more liquor? MR PYPER Yes, we bought brandy later that day. MR BOTHA Two bottles of brandy were bought? MR PYPER If I remember correctly, yes. MR BOTHA MR PYPER MR BOTHA Today you said that your conduct was politically inspired? MR PYPER Yes. MR BOTHA You say that it was inspired by statements made by certain leaders? MR PYPER MR BOTHA Can you tell the Honourable Committee which statements are you referring to and what exactly was said? MR PYPER What was said was that this election period, during this election period, there was no doubt that our land, that our country would be taken away from us and that we should avoid at all costs this happening and that we should have no circumstances should yield to a communist reign. There was also some discussion in smaller groups that each individual would have to contribute something to cause chaos in this election period so that the election could be cancelled and a state of emergency announced. MR BOTHA Who said that? MR PYPER Pardon me? MR BOTHA Who said that you should disrupt the elections? MR PYPER MR BOTHA Can you mention any names? MR PYPER MR BOTHA MR PYPER Yes. MR BOTHA MR PYPER In my section, yes. In my battalion. MR BOTHA And if you met up with another section or battalion of the Defence Force, you would know who your senior was? MR PYPER If he wore his insignia rank, yes. MR BOTHA And if he wore no such insignias of rank, would you not know? MR PYPER No. Very probably not. MR BOTHA Now the picture which you are painting today is as the Book of Revelations mentions as war and rumours of war, bombs had exploded and there was this call that went out, that everybody should contribute his bit? MR PYPER MR BOTHA This situation must surely have instilled a great measure of fear in you, this fact that you were about to become involved in a war? MR PYPER I believe that everybody is scared of war. MR BOTHA You tried to obtain a .303 beforehand? MR PYPER MR BOTHA MR PYPER MR BOTHA So you wanted to take on this organisation with a .303? MR PYPER That was the only weapon that was accessible at that stage. MR BOTHA MR PYPER MR BOTHA I understand that you then, on that particular evening experienced problems with cocking this gun? MR PYPER The shotgun, yes. MR BOTHA Let me rather put it to you as a question. Did you have a problem on that particular night with cocking of the gun? MR PYPER MR BOTHA MR PYPER MR BOTHA Would you agree with me that that does not sound logical? MR PYPER MR BOTHA MR PYPER Correct. MR BOTHA MR PYPER MR BOTHA MR PYPER MR BOTHA MR PYPER I think so, yes. MR BOTHA MR PYPER MR BOTHA To get back to this war situation which you were facing on that particular day, you said that you were scared that it was a war? MR PYPER I said that anybody is scared of war. MR BOTHA Yes, everybody is afraid of war and you were as well? MR PYPER MR BOTHA Is it so that Mr Wheeler had his shotgun with him almost all the time when he was driving in his car? MR PYPER MR BOTHA MR PYPER MR BOTHA His home was within walking distance of your home but he brought his rifle with him when he came to visit you? MR PYPER MR BOTHA Now, if there was this war situation, or let me phrase it this way, on that particular evening, for some reason or another, did not have his rifle with him at your house? MR PYPER MR BOTHA You said that you were convinced that there was a situation of war, why did he, in the middle of this situation of war, why would he leave his weapon at home? MR PYPER MR BOTHA Tell me. MRS GCABASHE I beg your pardon Mr Botha. As far as you were concerned you were only going to go out that night, you say? When had you made the decision to go out at night? MR PYPER MRS GCABASHE MR PYPER We decided on that day that we would act that night but long before the elections there had been discussions that right wingers should get together and that something would happen. But we only made that decision to act that night, on that particular day. MRS GCABASHE Now give me a rough time. I know you had a braai, just give me a rough time in relation to that? MR PYPER To what? MRS GCABASHE Give me a rough time as to when you made that decision, I know you made the decision that day, now narrow that down to a time, if you can? MR PYPER That night on the road, we decided it would be a taxi. MRS GCABASHE You misunderstand me. The decision to go out and act that night, not the specific act, just the act that night. You made that decision during the day, I just want a rough time, when? MR PYPER I understand now. It was that morning when we went to the polling stations and saw that the communists was about to take over our country. It was at that stage. MRS GCABASHE MR PYPER 10, 11 more or less. MRS GCABASHE Thank you. MR BOTHA MR PYPER Yes. MR BOTHA Is that also the encouragement which lead to you taking up the weapon? MR PYPER Yes, that is true. MR BOTHA If that is so, the 27th April was the day of the election? MR PYPER MR BOTHA The 28th April was still the election day, I think it might have been the day of the postal vote? MR PYPER MR BOTHA Would the 29th April have been the day upon which the communists would take over the country? MR PYPER No. We had to prevent that something like that happened. And if the election were to continue, it would be a definite fact that they would take over the country. So with those elections we knew that they were busy taking over the country. MR BOTHA But they had not yet taken over the country? MR PYPER Well all AWB members knew that that was the thing that would happen. MR BOTHA Just for the purposes of fairness, I would like to place the correct version on record. CHAIRPERSON MR BOTHA Thank you Mr Chairman. Mr Pyper, what then did you understand when he said the same night? MR PYPER Well, the impression which was created by me was that the 27th would be the big day upon which most of the people would be voting and we knew there existed no doubt within our minds that the ANC had already taken over with those elections and that I understood that night to be the night of the 27th. MR BOTHA But in fact, would you agree with me that Mr Mandela was only inaugurated in May as the President? MR PYPER That is correct. MR BOTHA Thus, on the night of the 27th April, they had therefore not taken over power? MR PYPER MR BOTHA Very well. Going back to your membership, you applied in 1989 for membership of the AWB, as I understand your evidence in chief? MR PYPER That is correct. MR BOTHA You did not receive a membership card? MR PYPER No. MR BOTHA Apparently you regarded the membership card as proof of your membership? MR PYPER To a certain degree, yes. MR BOTHA And when you realised that you were not yet a member in 1992/1993, you once again applied for membership? MR PYPER Well I was already a member. I had the phone number of a lady, I cannot remember in which area this number was but I phoned her and she told me that my name appeared on the computer list and that I was a registered member, that was in 1989. I phoned her twice or three times and she told me to be patient and that I would receive my membership card but that nonetheless I was a registered member. MR BOTHA When was that? MR PYPER 1989. MR BOTHA In 1989/1990 they told you that you were a member but once again you applied for membership? MR PYPER MR BOTHA Might I just ask you Mr Pyper, what was the purpose of you wanting the membership card? Did you need it for certain things? MR PYPER CHAIRPERSON Just one question on this. When you registered again in 1992 did you pay a further subscription? MR PYPER CHAIRPERSON Yes, thank you. MR BOTHA Do you have any proof today, apart from your word that you were a member of the AWB? MR PYPER MR BOTHA MR PYPER Yes, but you had to pay the registration fee as well. MR BOTHA But the mere signing of the application form and the payment of a fee to a person would automatically render one a member? MR PYPER Could you repeat? MR BOTHA The mere signing of an application for membership and the payment of a fee would render a person a member of the AWB? MR PYPER If he had done that he would be a member, yes. MR BOTHA So, just to use an example, yesterday Mr Gert De Bruin was here and if I had given him R10.00 and completed a form and kept it in my cupboard, I would be a member? MR PYPER No, you had to hand in the form. MR BOTHA Very well. If for example I had been a black person and my surname was Botha and I filled out the form and sent in the fee by post I would then be a member of the AWB? MR PYPER As far as my knowledge goes, these membership forms were handed out at meetings so if you were a black person you would have been chased away immediately. MR BOTHA Very well, I accept that. However, if I had received this form by post? MR PYPER MR BOTHA You have said that you believed 100% and your words in chief are that a war would break out? MR PYPER Without a doubt. MR BOTHA The war which would break out, that you had been drinking so much that you would not even have been in a state to wage a war the next day? MR PYPER Yes I was in a state. MR BOTHA Can you remember that Mrs A S Pyper, I think the sister-in-law of the First Applicant also testified in the Supreme Court? MR PYPER MR BOTHA Can you remember that her indisputable evidence was that you on this particular day at their home and this is after the shooting incident when you went to their home? MR PYPER INTERPRETER MR PYPER You said Mrs A S Pyper, it would be Mrs Wheeler? MR BOTHA MR PYPER That is correct. MR BOTHA That is in Randfontein? MR PYPER That is correct. MR BOTHA MR PYPER We had been drinking, I will not dispute that. MR BOTHA She also testified indisputably that you fell off a chair twice? MR PYPER That could be true, I cannot deny that. MR BOTHA She said that during a conversation you were practically falling asleep? MR PYPER Well we visited for a long time there. We consumed alcohol and I was tired. MR BOTHA Well in that condition would you have been able to wage the war which you believed 100% would definitely be breaking out? MR PYPER MR BOTHA Mr Wheeler said yesterday that this shooting incident. CHAIRPERSON MR PYPER MR BOTHA MR PYPER To who are you referring? MR BOTHA To Mr Wheeler. MR PYPER MR BOTHA I have noticed that during the trial you also used the services of the psychologist, Dr Burke. Did you tell Dr Burke that you committed this deed from a political motivation? MR PYPER No at that point we had not yet been convicted or sentenced and I wanted to prevent, at all costs that anybody knew what my objectives were because I wanted to avoid the death sentence. MR BOTHA Dr Burke subjected you to several tests and consultations for several hours? MR PYPER MR BOTHA Do you agree with his findings at the end? MR DE KONING With respect Chairperson, I was involved in that trial and Dr Burke spent a great deal of time in the witness stand and with respect, the findings to which are being referred should at least be made available to the witness so that he can have full knowledge of what is being discussed. I attended those trials and even I do not know everything. CHAIRPERSON Perhaps you could ask the witness if he knows what the conclusions of Dr Burke were. MR PYPER MR BOTHA You say that you cannot remember the findings of the psychologist? MR PYPER No. MR BOTHA And the Advocate can also not remember it? MR PYPER MR BOTHA He stated or could you argue that Dr Burke stated that this incident occurred as a result of a number of contributing factors, one of which was the death of your brother, that was a factor? MR PYPER I think he mentioned that. MR BOTHA MR PYPER Let us say that it inspired me, it lead me to realise that that for which the AWB stood, was right. MR BOTHA And he drew a further conclusion that alcohol was another contributing factor? MR PYPER The alcohol could have given me a certain amount of courage. MR BOTHA He also states and this is during cross examination that with the assistance of an example which he borrowed from physics where it says that energy cannot be created or destroyed, he maintained that emotions are very much like this type of energy. We think we can ignore emotions or that if we work at it emotions will go away. But in fact they do not disappear and they remain there in an underlying fashion, like a champagne bottle, if you shake it enough, the cork will pop eventually. And I think that these things built up to such a point at that stage that the cork popped out and that all the contents spilled out. Emotions of bitterness, sorrow, the aggression which he possibly felt overwhelmed him completely, do you agree? MR PYPER MR BOTHA Are you an aggressive person? MR PYPER Under normal circumstances I am not an aggressive person. But when it comes to my family, my loved ones, my Afrikaner volk, my fellow citizens, when it comes to their lives being threatened, I will not hesitate to use aggression. MR BOTHA What type of bullet was used in the shotgun? MR PYPER A slug bullet was used. MR BOTHA Could you explain to the Committee what this is? MR PYPER MR BOTHA Could you indicate the size of this point, the solid point to the Committee? MR PYPER In cross section, I would say approximately 12mm. MR BOTHA And how long? MR PYPER Are you referring to the point itself? MR BOTHA MR PYPER MR BOTHA That is a very large projectile? MR PYPER That is correct. MR BOTHA MR PYPER MR BOTHA MR PYPER MR BOTHA Very well. Then Mr Pyper you have said and I know that it is not nice to touch upon this again but your brother was shot with an AK47? MR PYPER MR BOTHA Why do you say that it was communists who shot your brother? MR PYPER CHAIRPERSON MR BOTHA MR PYPER MR BOTHA MR PYPER That is correct. MR BOTHA MR PYPER A communist deed. MR BOTHA MR PYPER MR BOTHA I have no further questions, thank you. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR BOTHA CHAIRPERSON COMMITTEE ADJOURNS ON RESUMPTION CHAIRPERSON Mr Botha, have you completed your cross examination? MR BOTHA Yes, thank you Mr Chairman. CHAIRPERSON Mr Steenkamp, do you have any questions? MR STEENKAMP Mr Chairman, just a few questions. CORNELIUS RUDOLPH PYPER (s.u.o.) EXAMINATION BY MR STEENKAMP (cont) Mr Pyper, a question that I want to ask you also has to do with the trial where you testified. The Court asked you and the Advocate who also represented you at that point and just to give you greater perspective as to the origin of the question. The Advocate said the following; "Very well, regarding this crime, I want you to take his Honour into your confidence and tell him whether or not you had any kind of political objective for this act, for the killing of this person?" "No, not at all." "Are you politically active?" "No." "Are you active with any political organisation in the country?" "No." "Did you follow any political objective in that which you did?" "No." MRS GCABASHE MR STEENKAMP Unfortunately this is a copy of the full record, I will gladly make a copy available. I think that the core of the question we can find later, a page later. "Can you tell his Honour, the Judge, regarding the motivation for your crime?" "I think our drunken state lead to this crime." The question that I want to ask you is, where you are invited to tell the truth to the Supreme Court, there where you have the opportunity to tell the Court exactly what happened and to take the Court into your confidence, where your own Advocate asks you to do this, how is it that this Committee should believe you today because the impression which I received is that this entire incident occurred out of a state of drunkenness, because of drinking? MR PYPER It is not so. The impression which I created in Court was premeditated because as I have already mentioned that I had no doubt that as my fellow colleagues who were sentenced before me received the death sentence as well as many other rightists who received very heavy sentences, there existed no doubt within my mind that if in Court I had told the Judge that it was politically motivated, that I would definitely have received the death sentence. That is the only reason. MR STEENKAMP Do I therefore understand you correctly, that you thought that you could not take the Judge into your confidence and tell him the full truth? Is that what you are saying? MR PYPER MR STEENKAMP "A violent shot shook me, it frightened me and I realised the gravity of that which I was doing." MR PYPER MR STEENKAMP MR PYPER No, I realised the gravity earlier but when the shot was fired, at that moment, this entire rightist opposition, the atmosphere which was created became a reality for me at that point and at that moment I realised that the war is here and from here on it would be a struggle. MR STEENKAMP Another question that I want to ask you is, what was your intention when you climbed into the vehicle with the firearm and drove, did you want to cause damage, frighten people, shoot someone? MR PYPER Our intention was to sow chaos so that the elections would be disrupted and abandoned. MR STEENKAMP And why then did you specifically go out and look for a black person? MR PYPER For example, a thousand rightists had attacked a thousand taxis, I could imagine the chaos that it would have caused. MR STEENKAMP Was it ever said to you that a black taxi was a possible target for the AWB? Did you ever discuss it, was it ever said to you at a meeting that specifically black taxis were soft targets? MR PYPER Taxis as targets were discussed. MR STEENKAMP When did that happen? MR PYPER At meetings. Not by chief speakers but by groups who gathered before the meetings. These type of things were discussed. MR STEENKAMP And in conclusion, another question is whether or not this war which you perceived included whites who were voting for example for the ANC or the NP, was your struggle also against them? MR PYPER Our struggle was against communism alone. We believed that the ANC was a communist organisation so therefore if a white person was a member of the ANC, he was our enemy as well. MR STEENKAMP So if you had seen a taxi on that day upon which it said, "Vote ANC" and whites were inside, would you have fired at it? MR PYPER Yes, I believe so. MR STEENKAMP Because the impression that I am receiving here is that it was simply a racist attack, you drank too much, your inhibitions were lowered and you just shot? MR PYPER MR STEENKAMP just be honest? MR PYPER MR STEENKAMP No further questions, thank you Mr Chairman. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR STEENKAMP CHAIRPERSON Yes, thank you. Mr De Koning, do you have any re-examination? MR DE KONING No re-examination thank you. CHAIRPERSON Thank you Mr De Koning. MR DE KONING Mr Chairman it would appear that my attorney would like to speak to me, will you please permit that and let me reconsider that, if it pleases you? CHAIRPERSON Only with pleasure. MR DE KONING Thank you. Upon reflection Mr Chairman, there is one aspect. RE-EXAMINATION BY MR DE KONING MR PYPER MR DE KONING And as I understand it, the road is the chief route between these two places and Westonaria? MR PYPER CHAIRPERSON Thank you. MR DE KONING Thank you Chairperson. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR DE KONING CHAIRPERSON Any questions to put to the witness? MR MOLOI Just to clarify a few issues, thank you Mr Chairman. Mr Pyper, do I understand you to say, already in the morning between 10 and 11 you had decided that you and Mr Wheeler to take some form of action in order to put the electoral process in disarray or something? MR PYPER MR MOLOI At that time, did you then also decide what form of action to take? MR PYPER No. MR MOLOI Did you at any stage prior to seeing the Kombi travelling on the road decide what action you would take? MR PYPER Please repeat the question? MR MOLOI Before you could see the taxi travelling on the road in the evening now, did you make up your minds as to what action you would take? MR PYPER MR MOLOI Did you specifically decide to shoot a black or blacks? MR PYPER As I have mentioned earlier, if it had been a vehicle upon which it said, "We are ANC Supporters" and that there were white people inside, it would have also been the target. MR MOLOI So the objective was not solely to shoot black people? Any supporter of the ANC or any communist you would identify would be under fire also? MR PYPER If we could identify them then yes. MRS GCABASHE But the fact of the matter is that this particular motor vehicle was not identifiable as that either the Communist Party or the ANC? MR PYPER MR MOLOI So you did not just see a silhouette of the driver but you could also identify, he is a black person? MR PYPER MR MOLOI You testified earlier in your evidence in chief, why did you say all you could see was a silhouette of a person, of the driver, not his identity? MR PYPER MR MOLOI So it was not ...[inaudible] saw a silhouette of a person? MR PYPER MR MOLOI ...[inaudible] to take some form of action, was it taken before or after the news of a bomb explosion in the East Rand? MR PYPER MR MOLOI ...[inaudible] properly, what you do say is that this decision was your own, in a group form, not from the authority, it was a personal decision? MR PYPER MR MOLOI ...[inaudible] must then to what we have heard from Mr Wheeler and Mr De Bruin that they would wait for instructions on the day, to take action. You say you had instruction prior to the date? MR PYPER I did not receive instructions before that date to go over into action. What I am saying is that it was brought home to us that on the 27th April, things would be happening and that we should be prepared and that we should also wait for an order to be given, I will agree with that and the fact that Mr De Bruin who I regarded as a leadership figure within the AWB said "it has begun", those were his words. That to me was the trigger, that the struggle had begun and that we had to go over into action. I perceived it as an order and I carried it out as an order. MR MOLOI ...[inaudible] because he said, because he did not receive any instruction on the day, he left and visited his parents and he did not take any form of action to disrupt the elections. MR PYPER MR MOLOI ...[inaudible] several meetings you had leading towards the elections, were you ever instructed as to the form of violence you would have to take or to undertake? MR PYPER Time and again, at every meeting I cannot tell you of one meeting where violence and violent take over was not discussed. It was said that violence and peace do not go together but violence and war go together. CHAIRPERSON MR PYPER As I have mentioned earlier, we met in groups before the meetings and it was discussed that especially taxi vehicles were soft targets and other types of soft targets were also discussed. It was also discussed that we should carry it out in such a manner that we would not be caught. MR STEENKAMP Can you just tell me about these groups to which you have referred, were these informal groups or was there some kind of structure to these groups, for example, that people living in the same area would be part of a certain group? MR PYPER MR MOLOI I want some clarity here as to whether the decisions you took were the subjective decisions of the particular groups in which you found yourself and not so much the official directive of the AWB? MR PYPER MR MOLOI The fact that no other people acted the way you did on the particular day, you made your deductions based on simply what you understood to be the position which evidently was not the official position of the AWB? MR PYPER MR MOLOI My understanding and correct me if I am wrong is that the AWB had prepared for "vryheid stryd" prior to the election day, is that correct? MR PYPER There was talk of that but before the electoral day nothing came of that, it was said that we should take this matter further and it was said that the country was falling out of our hands without a doubt. We saw it, we knew it and that is what happened. MR MOLOI If you were a member of the AWB you would know that there was a military wing of the AWB going under the name of "Aquila", which was intended for the vryheid stryd ...[inaudible] is it not so? MR PYPER MR MOLOI Because I understand that in preparation for the vryheid stryd, the military wing was set up, trained, equipped, specifically for the purpose of derailing the elections, am I wrong? MR PYPER MR MOLOI You are a trained military person, you have undergone military training, you have carried out certain operations, even on the border, you know what instruction is and what instruction is not, is it not so? MR PYPER MR MOLOI MR DE KONING Chairperson, if you would just grant me this, yesterday my colleague here next to me, I would almost say made the error when he referred to the cross examination of the former or previous witness by members of the Committee, I would like to say with respect that this which is happening right now is in fact a cross examination because the Honourable member is not clearing up certain unclear matters but he is actually making certain statements and I say with respect that this might not have a good effect on the objectivity of the Committee and I ask that you and the Honourable Chairman please address this issue. CHAIRPERSON MR DE KONING As it pleases the Committee. CHAIRPERSON You can continue. MR MOLOI MR DE KONING The member or the witness answered the question and said no that the entire membership or support of the AWB, the way I understand the question or the answer, was called upon to partake in this vryheid stryd and the following question, the one which prompted me to object, if my memory serves me correct, was really to defy that answer and I would submit that what else do we need more clarity on? I am equally alive to the fact that we are not in a Court of Law but be that as it may, I would suggest that at least the principles of natural justice should be done justice to in as much as one would expect that even the Applicants should perceive that they are being afforded an objective hearing, if it pleases Mr Chairman and cross examination or even moving close to the wind as far as that is concerned might reflect upon that perception of a particular Applicant if it pleases you. MRS GCABASHE MR DE KONING Mr Chairman if you would permit me to respond to that in the way I understood the submission of the Honourable member was that I was called upon to do so. Now if you would permit me to do that in my mother tongue, I would prefer so. CHAIRPERSON Certainly. MR DE KONING CHAIRPERSON MR MOLOI Thank you Mr Chairman. Mr Pyper, you say you had not decided in the morning as to what action to take, right? MR PYPER MR MOLOI Mr De Bruin, and this causes me a problem, Mr Wheeler says in Paragraph 22 of his Affidavit, "Directly afterwards my wife got into my Ford Sierra and drove home. I," and that is the part which bothers me, "myself and Corrie then decided jointly to go and shoot black people to try to disrupt the elections." ...[inaudible] a decision taken, do you understand it the same way I do? MR PYPER We decided that we would do something that day, I would agree with that, specifically to go and shoot black people. Well, black people in our eyes, as we were taught were communists. We were taught to fight communism and that was our target. That was our objective. MR MOLOI Thank you Mr Chairman. CHAIRPERSON Advocate Gcabashe, do you have questions? MRS GCABASHE Thank you Chair. Mr Pyper, I am still a bit confused about the sequence between the decision to take action generally, to take action and the hearing of the news of the bombing. I am not sure which came first, which came first? You heard the news or you drove around first and took that decision? MR PYPER The fact that action should be taken had been decided upon long ago by the AWB. As I said, this had been discussed at meetings and so forth. So it was already in our minds that there would be action and when the bombs exploded, that just triggered this whole process. That made us realise that we were going to act. MRS GCABASHE MR PYPER As I said, it was before the election that we discussed and decided that we would act. That morning at the polling booths, that just confirmed for us that we would act. The explosions were the trigger for action. MR STEENKAMP Maybe on that point, where were you exactly? As far as you can recall when you heard about the bomb explosions? MR PYPER We were in the vehicle, the news came on the car radio. MRS GCABASHE MR PYPER MRS GCABASHE MR PYPER No. As I said, it was only that evening that we decided what we would do. MRS GCABASHE In fact the whole concept of working in teams is not something that you had really discussed in relation to the action you would take, not at any time? MR PYPER Please repeat the question? MRS GCABASHE Team (b), you know as you would in the army, you have teams who do different things at different times. Did you ever discuss that type of structure? MR PYPER MRS GCABASHE So the action you were going to take was left to you, the individual and your individual decision was to go out and shoot black people on that day? MR PYPER The instruction was just that the elections should be disrupted. That was the instruction. MRS GCABASHE MR PYPER MRS GCABASHE MR PYPER MRS GCABASHE MR PYPER MRS GCABASHE You see the same reasoning again, come through with the idea of the death penalty and the six right wingers who you say had been given the death penalty at the time you were awaiting trial, you said that remember? There were six right wingers? MR PYPER What exactly do you mean? MRS GCABASHE You mentioned in your evidence that there were six right wingers who were given the death penalty while you were awaiting trial and you did not want to have the same thing happen to you, you did say that? MR PYPER Yes. MRS GCABASHE MR PYPER MRS GCABASHE MR PYPER MRS GCABASHE MR PYPER CHAIRPERSON Advocate Bosman, do you have questions? MS BOSMAN Thank you Chairperson. Mr Pyper, I have difficulty regarding the uncertainty amongst AWB members as to exactly what was expected of them. What was the purpose of these AWB meetings, was there an agenda at the meetings? What exactly was your perception, what was the purpose of the meetings? MR PYPER It was discussed that each and every person should have to act and that people on the day of the elections would go out and disrupt the elections. MS BOSMAN I want you to limit yourself to the formal gatherings and meetings. Did you go to these meetings knowing that you were going to listen to propaganda or did you go there thinking that these people would tell us what to do from the stage, by the speakers? MR PYPER MS BOSMAN MR PYPER What do you mean propaganda? MS BOSMAN MR PYPER MS BOSMAN Why were the speakers so careful in their speeches from the podium? MR PYPER As I said, there were times when they propagated wrong things and illegal things which could have landed them in trouble. But generally speaking they were cautious, what could perhaps have reached the wrong ears. MS BOSMAN Was there any restriction of access to these meetings? MR PYPER It was mostly white people. If you were white then, in any case most of the people at the meetings knew each other and the meetings took place in different areas such as, for instance, if they had an election in Westonaria then most of the people would have known each other in the Westonaria area. And if a person arrived at the meeting who was unknown they would ask him a couple of questions and they would have looked him over and perhaps have asked other people, look, do you know this person and maybe in such a way the person would have been identified. Anybody who appeared to be suspicious in any way was questioned. MR BOSMAN In other words there were security guards or there was access control, in other words, there were people checking out who arrived at the meetings and so on? MR PYPER MS BOSMAN Thank you. CHAIRPERSON Mr Pyper after you heard about the bomb on the radio that morning, did you again that day listen to the radio until, before you and Mr Wheeler went away in the vehicle? MR PYPER CHAIRPERSON Did you hear of any other incidents, other than that bomb at the airport? MR PYPER CHAIRPERSON Did you, as a member of the AWB ever acquire for yourself a uniform, the AWB uniform, khakis with the badges? MR PYPER No. Gert De Bruin used to tell us on the mine, there were quite a few AWB members and we talked amongst each other and none of us had a uniform. Gert De Bruin told us, well he said yesterday, it created an image of a dumb person, wearing of uniforms, but if you leave your home with an AWB uniform and the wrong people see that and you go back to your house wearing your AWB uniform then the chances are good that your wife and children could be murdered by certain people. So Gert De Bruin encouraged us to work undercover. CHAIRPERSON You said that you just assumed that Mr De Bruin held a position of some sort of leadership or was somewhere up there in the hierarchy of the party? MR PYPER CHAIRPERSON MR PYPER CHAIRPERSON Did you ever ask him? MR PYPER CHAIRPERSON You said in your evidence that after the events you became disillusioned with the AWB and I think you used the words, you swore them off. MR PYPER CHAIRPERSON Did you actually formally resign from the AWB? Did you give them a written notice or some form of communication saying, I am now resigning my membership? MR PYPER I did that in prison. I renounced my membership in writing. CHAIRPERSON In writing to the AWB? You addressed it to the AWB? MR PYPER That is correct yes. CHAIRPERSON We heard yesterday in evidence from Mr Wheeler that before you and Mr Wheeler left in the red Sierra, you wife was very much opposed to you leaving and Mr Wheeler said that, in fact he was even aware that she may well phone the police, she was that committed to stopping you from going. Were you aware of the attitude of your wife, as Mr Wheeler? MR PYPER Yes. CHAIRPERSON Why then did you ignore her pleas and go? Sorry, and if I could just ask before you answer that question, were you also under the impression that she might phone the police? MR PYPER CHAIRPERSON Why did you ignore her obviously strong pleas for you not to go? MR PYPER CHAIRPERSON MR PYPER CHAIRPERSON Now why did you not listen to her? MR PYPER CHAIRPERSON MR PYPER CHAIRPERSON Mr Pyper, you said that after you had been to Mr De Bruin that morning and he said words to the effect that, it has begun, that was the trigger? Why then did you go and have a braai with visitors, friends popping in if now war had, in your mind begun? MR PYPER Could you please repeat the question? CHAIRPERSON The question is, you said that in your mind, the trigger was, that put you into action was the words of Mr De Bruin, saying, "dit het begin", after you had been discussing about this bomb that you heard on the radio. And you were then of the mind that the war had begun. The war in the sense that it was now your duty and your colleague members of the AWB duty to now embark on an operation that would result in chaos and the ultimate disruption of the elections. MR PYPER CHAIRPERSON Thank you. Mr De Koning, do you have any questions arising out of questions that have been put by the panel? MR DE KONING Mr Chairman would you just permit me to converse with my instructing Attorney? CHAIRPERSON Yes. MR DE KONING Thank you Mr Chairman, no questions. CHAIRPERSON Mr Prinsloo, do you have any questions? MR PRINSLOO No questions thank you. MR BOTHA Yes, I do Mr Chairman. FURTHER CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR BOTHA Mr Pyper, you have said to the Honourable Chairperson that not all the beer was consumed? MR PYPER MR BOTHA MR PYPER MR BOTHA Can you tell the Committee what happened to these three beers? MR PYPER My wife broke the bottles of beer. MR BOTHA Without there being any testimony regarding her reason for this, would you agree with me that the inference is that she regarded this alcohol as the cause of this entire problem and that is why she smashed the bottles? MR PYPER MR BOTHA Can you tell me why she smashed the beer bottles? MR PYPER MR BOTHA If she lost her temper with you why would she smash the bottles? MR PYPER Ask her? MR DE KONING I object that the learned Advocate said out loud "ask her" and that the Applicant said, "ask her." MR BOTHA MR PYPER I can remember that he said that. MR BOTHA Very well. Then apart from the beer, when you departed on this tragic mission, was there any other alcohol left over? MR PYPER MR BOTHA And the brandy? MR PYPER I think that there was some left over brandy which we took along with us. MR BOTHA And when you say that you took brandy along, how did you take it along? MR PYPER It was in a bottle, in a 2 litre bottle. CHAIRPERSON Brandy in a 2 litre bottle? MR PYPER 2 Litre with Coke. CHAIRPERSON Oh sorry, with coke, yes. MR BOTHA MR PYPER You could put it that way. MR BOTHA MR PYPER MR BOTHA That later that evening you were at his home again? MR PYPER That is correct. MR BOTHA According to your bail application you remained in the vehicle? MR PYPER MR BOTHA MR PYPER We would have taken that commandant along with us personally, he would have given the instructions regarding the war situation, however he was not at home. MR BOTHA I have no further questions. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR BOTHA MR STEENKAMP No questions thank you Mr Chairman. CHAIRPERSON Thank you Mr Pyper. WITNESS EXCUSED MR DE KONING That is the case for the Second Applicant Chairperson. CHAIRPERSON Thank you Mr De Koning. Mr Botha? MR BOTHA Thank you Mr Chairman. Mr Chairman, the Papiyana family instructed me to read into the Record the Affidavits of Mr Z N Papiyana, G Z Papiyana and Mr G M Papiyana. And I beg leave to proceed to read it into the Record. CHAIRPERSON Yes. Is there any objection from anybody? MR PRINSLOO CHAIRPERSON Yes. MR PRINSLOO CHAIRPERSON MR DE KONING On the part of the Second Applicant no objections, thank you Mr Chairman. CHAIRPERSON Thank you Mr Botha, you may proceed. MR BOTHA Thank you Mr Chairman. Affidavit by N Z Papiyana, the father of the victims. I Nelson Zenam Papiyana hereby make oath and state as follows 1. I am a 62 year old man working as senior administrative officer at the Leeudoring Gold Mine, a division of the Kloof Goldmining Company Limited, Westonaria. 2. I am the father of the late Buyani Papiyana and his brother Madota Papiyana, the victims in question. 3. My wife and mother of the victims is Glenrose Zoleta Papiyana, a housewife who also handles the administration of our small taxi business. The content of this statement falls within my personal knowledge, unless expressly stated otherwise or where the contrary appears from the contents and are both true and correct. 4. Introduction: Right from the outset I would like to stress that neither my wife nor I seek publicity in this matter. We are private people, our feelings are private and belong to ourselves, especially the feelings that run as deep as the feelings dealing with the death of our son. As citizens of this country we have a duty to assist this Committee in the pursuit of National unity, peace and reconciliation. It is my wish that my point of view, as well as a few unanswered questions cited in this Affidavit be read out to the Honourable Committee. Although my wife as a different opinion of what should happen, which I respect, I endeavour that my opinion should be made public and considered. 5. Background of the victims: On this particular day, he was home for the short holiday following the closure of universities and technikons during the period of election. Godfrey Madota Papiyana was a 21 year old student at the Eastern Cape Technikon. He completed a diploma in personnel management. They were serious about their studies. The only political act they did was to make their cross on 27 April 1994. On the day in question I was working at the mine and I had to help as administrative official at the voting poll at the Leeudoring Goldmine. We had to control the queues created by the seven thousand voting hostel residents. The murderers have the advantage of a team of highly qualified State paid psychiatrists to help them cope with their situation. My wife had none. My surviving son had none. We only have an empty bed in the house and the other bed was haunted with nightmares of things that truly happened on that gruesome day. Both families were prisoners within themselves while the rest of the country was freed. 7. The shooting itself. 8. Bail Application. This is not in line with the evidence lead in the Supreme Court. I do not know whether the deeds of the two Applicants before this Honourable Committee were politically motivated or not. I also cannot say why the legal representatives stated explicitly that they had no links whatsoever with the AWB. Nor can I say why they have now changed their version of the truth. Is it not so that they were drinking brandy and coke and when they were intoxicated, decided and I apologies for the wording here, but that is what came out of the Supreme Court hearing, "om kaffirs te gaan skiet". Apparently just for the fun of it. Why involve their families who were not interested in their political talks, in a secret politically motivated assassination. The Prosecutor also indicated to the Court that Mr Wheeler is not paying maintenance for his children and that he is trying to avoid his legal obligations towards his children. Maybe he has good reasons of his own but at the time of making this statement I do not know how a man can care about anything if he does not even care for or attend to his own children. 9. Meeting with Mr C R Pyper and his wife. When I spoke with Mr Botha he told me that it was possible that Mr Pyper was merely trying to do everything he could in order to get a lighter sentence, without really feeling sorry for what he had done. On the other hand the request might be sincere. They might truly be sorry for what they had done. The choice however whether I wanted to see him or not was mine. I could see that Mr Pyper tried his best to keep his emotions under control. He requested his attorney to let them see me alone and that he did not want the lawyers to be present. We went into an empty office and Mr Pyper closed the door behind him. Mrs Pyper sobbed so much that she could not speak properly. I told him that almighty God brought this over us and that it was his Will. He told me that this event brought him nearer to his Saviour. I could see that he was worried about his wife and children but he said that he must be punished for what he did and that he will accept his punishment. He is not afraid. God will look after him and his family. I could see that he was a converted Christian. When I later learnt in the evidence given by Dr Burke that he was an introvert, a person who does not show his emotions easily, I realised that it must have been very difficult for him and that the remorse was so intense that he could not hide it. Mrs Pyper also verbalised that she was sorry. At that time I did not know what her role was in the incident. Now I realise that I must be the one thanking Mrs Pyper for her attempts to stop the foolish behaviour. She was the one trying to talk some sense into them. She threatened to phone the Police but Wheeler pulled out the telephone. Mr Pyper offered me a cheque in the amount of R5 200.00 in respect of the funeral costs incurred. I refused to accept it but he insisted and I could see that it would ease his pain a bit should I accept it. I could see that after I had talked to Mr Pyper and his wife and accepted the cheque that he felt a lot better. He said more than once that it was a very foolish thing he had done and that he was sorry. Initially I wanted to be compensated for all my losses but I have decided against civil action because both Wheeler and Pyper were in jail without any income and I did not want to take anything away from their children. No amount of money or this Honourable Committee can bring back my son. 10. Sentence. I was present throughout the proceedings in the Supreme Court. With all due respect to the decision of the Court, I sometimes wondered whether Pyper should not have received a lighter sentence than Wheeler because it seemed as if he was merely following orders from Wheeler. Wheeler provided the car, the gun, the cartridges and provided the hideaway with his brother in Randfontein. He loaded and cocked the gun. Pyper showed true remorse but from Wheeler I received only a glare at the Supreme Court. He never offered any excuse. In conclusion, my wife still refuses to see Wheeler and Pyper and for understandable reasons she is still so emotionally upset that she does not want to attend the Hearing of this Honourable Committee. We are not formally opposing or supporting the Applications for Amnesty but we trust that our input can be used by the Honourable Committee when they make this very difficult decision. I, the undersigned, Glenrose Zoleka Papiyana, hereby make oath and state as follows 1. I am the mother of the late Vuyani Kenneth Papiyana and Godfrey Papiyana, the victims. 2. I confirm that I have read the Affidavit of my husband, Nelson Zenham Papiyana and confirm the contents thereof insofar as it bears relevance to me and confirm it to be both true and correct. CHAIRPERSON Yes, thank you and then Mr Botha when the original does come to hand, could that be made available to the Committee for Record purposes? MR BOTHA Most definitely Mr Chairman. I have only a faxed copy of the original in my possession but I will see to it that the original comes to light. Can I proceed? CHAIRPERSON Yes certainly. MR BOTHA Thank you Mr Chairman. I Godfrey Madota Papiyana, hereby make oath and state as follows 1. I am the brother of the late Vuyani Kenneth Papiyana and the son of Mr Nelson and his wife Glenrose Papiyana. 2. I confirm that I have read the Affidavit of my father Nelson Zenham Papiyana and confirm the contents thereof insofar as it bears relevance to me and confirm it to be both true and correct. 3. I confirm that my instructions to Mr Wentzel Botha, my attorney are to oppose the Application for Amnesty by both Mr Pyper and Wheeler. 4. I was present at the Supreme Court Hearing and the evidence of both Mrs Pyper and Wheeler as well as their witnesses was that they were not politically active and that they were not affiliated with the AWB. They also denied that the murder of my brother was politically motivated. 5. I am therefore of the opinion that Amnesty should not be granted. The original was signed in Durban, it appears as if the Commissioner of Oaths did not fill in the time and the date. I assume that it will be on the 24th March 1989 and it was signed in front of Advocate Michael Carson Jocelyn Ormsdal of University of Natal. CHAIRPERSON Yes, thank you. Could we have a copy of that photostat, at this stage I think. MR BOTHA Most definitely. CHAIRPERSON Thank you Mr Botha. MR BOTHA I have nothing further to add. CHAIRPERSON Thank you. Gentlemen we have reached the stage where there will be no further evidence I assume Mr Steenkamp? MR STEENKAMP No further evidence to be lead from my side sir. CHAIRPERSON MR PRINSLOO CHAIRPERSON Of reinforcing your or replying to. MR PRINSLOO Correct Mr Chairman. If there are any specific aspects which any member of the Committee feels that we should give particular attention to we would appreciate it if, as I say, if you agree that we should follow that procedure of written submissions, if you could possibly draw our attention to it, otherwise we will of course deal with all the aspects possibly that are relevant to this particular case. But our submission, and I just want to ask my learned friend to confirm whether I convey it correctly, but our submission to you is then that we should be allowed to make written submissions and then also the further request to you as a Committee. CHAIRPERSON To get some sort of indication of, MR DE KONING Mr Chairman, likewise we go along with the proposed manner of debating the matter. However, I am firmly of the view that we would not like to miss the opportunity to really debate. CHAIRPERSON Have an oral session. MR DE KONING CHAIRPERSON Mr Botha? MR BOTHA I go with it as Mr De Koning said. CHAIRPERSON MR DE KONING Thank you Mr Chairman. MR PRINSLOO Thank you Mr Chairman. CHAIRPERSON At this stage we will now adjourn for the lunch adjournment. COMMITTEE ADJOURNS ON RESUMPTION MR STEENKAMP CHAIRPERSON MR BOTHA As you please Mr Chairman. CHAIRPERSON Mr Prinsloo there was just one matter that is still outstanding and that was the question of your Application to Amend the Application Form of Mr Wheeler, your client. MR PRINSLOO Thank you Mr Chairman. Mr Chairman I have discussed this matter with my learned friend Mr Botha for the family of the deceased and we have come to an arrangement, an agreement between us that Mr Botha will not oppose the Application as such any further but the arrangement is that he reserves the right to argue any implications of the amendment or things that can be argued around the effect of the Application as such and I would, in the light of that, ask the Committee to then have the amendment effected to paragraph 11(a) of the Application. CHAIRPERSON Yes, that is once again, just refresh me, to change, to delete the word "no"? MR PRINSLOO That is correct Mr Chairman. The word should then read "yes, on behalf of the AWB and the CP". CHAIRPERSON And the CP? MR PRINSLOO CHAIRPERSON Yes, thank you Mr Prinsloo, do you confirm that Mr Botha? MR BOTHA I confirm Mr Chairman. CHAIRPERSON Yes, thank you. Then the amendment is accordingly effected, namely that is in paragraph 11(a) of the Application of the First Applicant, immediately after the question contained under that number by the deletion of the word "nee" and the substitution therefore of the following words, "yes, on behalf of the AWB and the CP." MR PRINSLOO Thank you Mr Chairman. CHAIRPERSON However, it will go on that day, most likely in this venue. If this venue cannot be obtained, then another venue, a suitable venue within this region, not too far from here will definitely be arranged. MR STEENKAMP CHAIRPERSON MR DE KONING Thank you. MR PRINSLOO Yes, thank you. CHAIRPERSON By not later than half past 8 in the morning of the 29th May. Are any members of the Correctional Services present here? Did you understand that, please, if you will ensure that that is done. That both of the Applicants are here no later than half past 8 on the 29th May 1998. I would like to thank the people all concerned who set up the sound system. It worked very well, particularly when you pushed your finger hard on the button, you could hear it with a vengeance, it was very nice thank you. I would also like to thank the caterers who actually spoilt us with home made muffins and scones and home cooked meals every day, it was very nice indeed. And I would also like to thank the persons who were responsible for the security outside. In fact indeed everybody for what they have done this week. The media that have been present, thank you very much. We will then adjourn until the 29th May. I would also like to thank certainly not least but lastly, legal representatives for the most professional and efficient way in which they have conducted their cases before this Committee. Thank you very much indeed and for the evidence leader for doing all the organisation, thank you Mr Steenkamp. We will then take the adjournment at this stage. COMMITTEE ADJOURNS