hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, SUBMISSIONS QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS 1997-05-23 BALFOUR 1 ANNA M MOTLOUNG JB3348 https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=54942&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/balfour/10balmot.htm DR ALLY Could I please call Anna Motloung to come forward. Anna ? Anna, excuse my earlier pronunciation. Is it Motloung, is that how you pronounce your surname ? MRS MOTLOUNG Yes, I am Motloung. DR ALLY Anna, sorry for having inconvenienced you by changing the programme around but we just felt that, given that those three witnesses were really speaking about a similar incident, it would be best for us to heard them all one after the other rather than interrupt the account which they were giving. So I ask you again to bear with us. It’s been a long day. Anna, you are coming to speak about an event which took place in 1993. In June, 1993, your son Mendi Gabrial Zulu. A very tragic event. I’m sure it’s something that still pains you a lot. Mr Hugh Lewin is going to assist you with your statement but before you relate to us what happened to Gabrial, I would ask you please if you would just raise your right hand to take the oath. Do you swear that the testimony that which you will give will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God. MRS MOTLOUNG (sworn states) DR ALLY Thank you very much, Anna. MR LEWIN Mama Motloung, can you hear me through the headphones ? MRS MOTLOUNG Yes, I can hear you, thank you. MR LEWIN As the Chairperson has said, this relates to an incident which took place in June, 1993 and concerns your son. If you could please, just in your own words tell us what happened. Tell us about your son, who he was and how you saw the whole thing. Thank you. MRS MOTLOUNG In 1993, on the sixth of June at night when we were asleep, I heard the police knocking just before sun rise. I woke up and I opened the door. They asked me where Mendi was and I told them that I didn’t know his whereabouts. They went with me in Mendi’s room and the door was locked from outside. When they realized that the door was locked, they went into the house, came back with an axe and they chopped the door open. The three of them went inside. All in all there were six of them. Three went inside the house and three were left behind. After a few minutes, I don’t know what happened to them afterwards but Lindiwe was inside the house and when they found her inside, a gun was fired. They went out with the mattress and they threw it on the ground. MR LEWIN Please take your time. MRS MOTLOUNG We were still waiting outside and an ambulance came to take him to the hospital. On the fifteenth of June, they arrived during the day to inform me that he passed away in the hospital. We buried him and after the police came with a van and picked me up together with Lindiwe and my other sister. They took us to the police station in town and they took a statement from us. They said we shouldn’t worry because they will never pick us up anymore. MR LEWIN Mrs Motloung, could I ask for some explanations. Lindiwe was in the room with Mendi, was she ? MRS MOTLOUNG Lindiwe was in the room with Mendi. So they found her but at first, in your statement you say they did not find him. MRS MOTLOUNG They found Mendi together with Lindiwe in the room. MR MANTHATA In your statement you say that he was under the bed. Is that right ? MRS MOTLOUNG Lindiwe was in the house and she saw him and she heard them said, here’s a person under the bed. MR LEWIN Was there only one shot that you heard ? MRS MOTLOUNG They only shot once. MR LEWIN And they gave no explanation to you at the time what they were doing ? MRS MOTLOUNG They used to come to my house to search for Mendi and when I asked them, why were they looking for him, they said he was in possession of a firearm. MR LEWIN Had this happened several times ? MRS MOTLOUNG Yes, it happened several times. Sometimes they would come and say Mendi fought with a policeman. MR LEWIN Did you ever see Mendi with a firearm ? MRS MOTLOUNG No Sir. MR LEWIN So as far as you know, he never had a firearm. MRS MOTLOUNG I have never seen him with a gun, Sir. MR LEWIN Why do you think they came so often ? MRS MOTLOUNG They were looking for Mendi. MR LEWIN Do you think it was, I see in your statement you say he was a member of PAC. Was it because of that, do you think ? MRS MOTLOUNG Yes, he was a member of the PAC. MR LEWIN Was he an activist. You say he was also a member of PASO. Does that mean that he was very active ? MRS MOTLOUNG I really do not know. MR LEWIN What is puzzling is that this is June 1993, which was less than a year before the election. The first democratic election. So there could have been nothing illegal that he was doing by being a member of the PAC. You must have thought about it a lot. Why do you think they were after him ? MRS MOTLOUNG They were after him because he was fighting the policeman. MR LEWIN Why particularly, why was there this fight at that stage in our history? MRS MOTLOUNG I do not know, I was only given the news that he fought with the policeman. MR LEWIN Where did you get that new from ? MRS MOTLOUNG I heard this from Lindiwe. MR LEWIN Was that after he had died. MRS MOTLOUNG No, before he died. MR LEWIN And Lindiwe didn’t give you any indication about what the fight was about ? MRS MOTLOUNG No, she never told me anything. I only heard that Mendi was running up and down with a policeman, fighting. MR LEWIN Did you ever discuss it with Mendi himself ? MRS MOTLOUNG I asked him, Mendi, what’s happening to you ? Are you fighting with the policeman ? He never told me the truth. MR LEWIN He didn’t give any explanation at all ? MRS MOTLOUNG He never explained anything to me. MR LEWIN What was he doing at the time ? Was he still a student ? I see you say he was twenty one. MRS MOTLOUNG Yes, he was a student. MR LEWIN What did he intend to do after his schooling, after his studies ? MRS MOTLOUNG He hadn’t taken a decision what to do after completing his Matric. MR LEWIN So you really have no idea why there was this attack early in the morning or why they came to collect him. You’ve never been able to establish anything about that ? MRS MOTLOUNG No Sir. MR LEWIN After they came on the fifteenth of June, after they came to say that he had died, did they bring a death certificate ? Did you ever get a death certificate ? MRS MOTLOUNG I went to look for a death certificate in Heidelberg. My brothers went to look for it. MR LEWIN And did you find it ? MRS MOTLOUNG Yes. MR LEWIN Can you remember what the death certificate said ? MRS MOTLOUNG I have a death certificate here with me. I’m sorry, I can’t read. MR LEWIN Thanks, while we’re getting the death certificate, could I ask, between the sixth and the fifteenth when they came to tell you, did you try and go to find him or go and see him ? MRS MOTLOUNG Lindiwe and my other daughter and a relative of mine went on that same day to the hospital. MR LEWIN Did they get a chance to talk to him before he died ? MRS MOTLOUNG No, he was just quiet. He couldn’t say a word. MR LEWIN Was any policeman ever charged ? Was there a case against the police ? MRS MOTLOUNG No, there was no case against the police. MR LEWIN Also in your statement Ma Motloung, you mentioned some specific names who people who Lindiwe said she saw actually shooting him. Was there ever a case made against them ? Any charge brought against them ? MRS MOTLOUNG There was no case because I haven’t heard of a case at all. MR LEWIN Do you know what’s happened to these policemen now ? MRS MOTLOUNG I do not know, I only learnt later that one of the policeman shot himself dead because he shot a person earlier on. MR LEWIN Someone different to Mendi ? MRS MOTLOUNG Yes, this was another person and after shooting this person he turned the gun on himself. MR LEWIN Could your companion just tell us what’s on the death certificate please ? It’s not indicated. COMPANION Only the date of death and the place, Heidelberg. MR LEWIN But no cause of death ? Ma Motloung, is there anything specific that you’d like us to try and do ? MRS MOTLOUNG There is nothing specific Sir. MR LEWIN Would you like us to try and follow up with the police ? MRS MOTLOUNG Yes, you can follow it up but I’ve lost hope because the policeman I’ve referred to has died. MR LEWIN But we could also follow up with the hospital perhaps. MRS MOTLOUNG Yes, carry on Sir. MR LEWIN What would also help us is if you could get Lindiwe to make a statement for us because that would give more details as well. Would that be possible ? MRS MOTLOUNG This is Lindiwe next to me, Sir. MR LEWIN Then could I ask Lindiwe. Would you be prepared to make a statement ? MISS MOTLOUNG No. MR LEWIN You don’t have to talk now but it would help us if you could give us a written statement, to our statement takers. You don’t have to talk now, talk here. I can understand you not wanting to do that but it would help if you could answer some of the questions that Ma Motloung hasn’t been able to answer. Could you do that ? MISS MOTLOUNG Yes. MR LEWIN Thanks very much. Mr Chair, I have no further questions. DR ALLY Thank you very much for coming to the Commission, Ma Motloung and as it has been requested, it would really help us if Lindiwe would also make a statement to our statement takers. We will then certainly try and follow up on whatever leads there are. Some of the policemen who were involved, the names that you’ve mentioned and also if Lindiwe would explain in her statement exactly what happened in the room on that day. That would also help us. Thanks for coming to share with us what we can all see has been a very difficult experience and very painful for you. Thank you very much. Could I ask people please just to sit for a few minutes. The hearing is not yet over. Would people please just sit down. Could people please sit down. Before we close this hearing I think it is necessary for us on the side of the Commission to thank all of those who have been involved. It’s always very difficult when you have a hearing spread over different places, over a number of days. The Commission has been hearing testimony of witnesses since Wednesday in Nelspruit and then Thursday in Ermelo and to-day here in Balfour. There is a tremendous amount of organization that goes into those hearings so we want to say thank you very much to our staff for all the work that they put into that. We also want to thank the people in the different communities for having assisted us. The Ministers who have been with us, Reverend Ntembo in particular who’s travelled from Piet Retief back to Nelspruit and then back to Ermelo and back to Balfour. We really appreciate that effort and that involvement. We also want to thank they town councils for assisting us in making venues available. We want to thank the police services both for providing protection at the hearings and also for providing protection for the members of the Commission themselves. We also want to thank the media for covering these events. It’s very important that these events, that what actually happened, particularly in areas like Balfour which were not always in the national newspapers, that these events are highlighted so that people can actually get to some understanding of what was happening in these far flung parts of our country. One of the things that has actually emerged very very strongly over these there days is the heavy, heavy toll that the conflict exacted on communities. That the conflict was very often based within the community itself. Yesterday, when we were in Ermelo, we could see that in the township of Wesselton how a community divided, Comrades on the one side and Black Cats on the other side. (tape ended)