hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, SUBMISSIONS QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS 1997-05-23 BALFOUR 1 MANTSHOLO V MNISI JB3327 https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=54945&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/balfour/3balmni.htm DR ALLY MR MNISI This is my mother. DR ALLY Welcome to your mother. Before I ask Doctor Randera to assist you with your statement, will you please stand and raise your right hand to take the oath. Thank you. MR MNISI (sworn states) DR RANDERA Mr Mnisi, good morning to you and to your mother. Welcome to you both. MR MNISI Good morning. DR RANDERA MR MNISI DR RANDERA Mr Mnisi, can I ask for the indulgence of a Chairperson. Perhaps we should just talk about this one incident because the second one is related to something completely different and there are many other stories that will follow that will talk about what happened in 1990. So if I can just ask you a few questions on what happened in 1978. You must have spent a long time in hospital. How long were you in hospital for ? MR MNISI DR RANDERA When you came back to ... (interrupted) MR MNISI DR RANDERA Had you laid any charges, either whilst you were in hospital ... (interrupted) MR MNISI DR RANDERA MR MNISI The police first laid charges against me. DR RANDERA MR MNISI He alleged that I wanted to stab him and chop him with an axe. That is not true, he is the one who shot me. To my surprise that was the case he opened. DR RANDERA Tell us what happened. Did you actually end up in prison or was the case dropped against you ? Did you get a sentence that was suspended ? MR MNISI DR RANDERA Were you working at the time ? MR MNISI DR RANDERA What about your present status, are you working now ? MR MNISI DR RANDERA Mr Mnisi going back to your statement, you say in 1978 the police were in full force trying to stop the influx of people into urban areas by arresting those who do not have pass books. This is quite a small community, I would imagine in 1978 it was even smaller. Just take us back to that time and describe how these things were being done and your own experiences as well ... (interrupted) MR MNISI DR RANDERA Would the police come in to Siyathemba and arrest people and carry out raids at night or during the daytime ? MR MNISI People used to come day and night, raiding the house Siyathemba and arresting people. They were not joking. DR RANDERA MR MNISI I would like to know about Fanie de Beer. I would like to know his whereabouts because he is the one who injured me. DR RANDERA MR MNISI DR RANDERA How many people actually died on that day Mr Mnisi ? MR MNISI There was one who died on the way to hospital by the name of Boetie Nkala. The other one, Sugar died after him. The two of us, myself and Magdaleni are the ones who survived this ordeal. DR RANDERA And your friend, the Councillor also died on that same day ? MR MNISI DR RANDERA MR MNISI DR RANDERA MR MNISI An incident like this had occurred before but not as bad as this time in 1990. There were conflicts and debates and things but not to this extent. DR RANDERA The protest with the buckets, was that a protest against the bucket system in itself or was it just a way to show the Councillors that people were against them ? MR MNISI DR RANDERA MR MNISI DR RANDERA Now I understand the Councillors lived in the community and people were against the Councillors and they were the direct point of entry in terms of anger that people were showing but you said earlier on that the Councillors were just working for the Government. Why did people not go and drop all the shit out in Balfour itself ? Why were the Councillors chosen as the ones they should be attacking ? MR MNISI DR RANDERA So people had been protesting for some time against the bucket system. Councillors had been forewarned about this is other words. MR MNISI Yes, the Councillors were aware of that. They committed themselves to changing the entire system and install a sewerage system but they never fulfilled their promise. DR RANDERA Mr Mnisi, my last question. I understand that after you came out of hospital you were charged for the killing of the Councillor. Can you just tell us what the outcome of that was. MR MNISI We were discharged at the court of law. We won the case, all of us. DR RANDERA How many of you were charged ? MR MNISI DR RANDERA Thank you, Mr Mnisi. MR LEWIN Mr Mnisi, could I just ask, this was one of many protests. Was it the last protest about the bucket system ? MR MNISI This was not the last bucket protest because the people in the township demanded many things. MR LEWIN Specifically about the bucket system, does it still exist ? MR MNISI: Yes, it still exists. MR LEWIN MR MNISI MR LEWIN MR MANTHATA Mr Mnisi, can you remember how the Councillor was killed ? MR MNISI When he was killed I was not in the neighbourhood, I was already admitted to the hospital. MR MANTHATA Were you at any stage in the leadership of the community against the bucket system ? MR MNISI I was not at the meeting. I was one of the community, one of the civilians and I grew up in this township. MR MANTHATA You were able to speak to the Councillor. I guess you were speaking to the Councillor on behalf of the people when you said he should let everything happen, it shall be cleaned later. MR MNISI No, I was not representing the community, I was talking to him simply because he was a friend, a personal friend of mine and I realized the danger he was getting himself into by holding his firearm. MR MANTHATA As you were speaking to him, where were the marchers ? Were they standing looking at you negotiating with him ? MR MNISI They were there watching and they knew very well that he was my friend. We grew up together, we were playing in one soccer team and we were also vendors. MR MANTHATA You said you are not working now, Mr Mnisi. Is your wife working ? MR MNISI MR MANTHATA So you are just staying with Mama and you are supporting your mother. MR MNISI MR MANTHATA No further questions, Mr Mnisi. DR ALLY Mr Mnisi, thank you very much for sharing with us ... (interrupted) MR MNISI DR ALLY Thank you, as you may be aware the Commission will make recommendations to the Government on Reparations and Rehabilitations so thank you very much for coming and taking us through this long history and explaining your own involvement in it. Thank you very much.