hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION HEARINGS 1996-08-12 BEAUFORT WEST 1 CT/00578 WILLIAM MAKULANI WILLIAM MAKULANI, ALWINUS MRALASI TORTURE BY POLICE https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=54965&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/beaufort/ct00578.htm MS BURTON Good morning. Can we make sure that you have your headset. Now, I believe that you are both going to give evidence this morning. Would you please both stand to take the oath. WILLIAM MAKULANI: Duly sworn states ALWINUS MRALASI: Duly sworn states MS BURTON Dr Ramashala is going to facilitate your evidence this morning. DR RAMASHALA Good morning Mr Makulani and Mr Mralasi. MR MAKULANI MR MRALASI DR RAMASHALA If both these gentlemen are going to be telling us about their horrible torture - experience - in the hand of the police. We will start with Mr Makulani and then follow up with Mr Mralasi. Mr Makulani, could you go back even before 1968, and talk about the circumstances that led to your detention in 1968. MR MAKULANI DR RAMASHALA May I just - can I just interrupt you a little bit to find out who was with you in the house. MR MAKULANI I was with my wife and a baby because my wife had just got a baby at that time. And then they said to me: Let us go, come out. And I was dressed already at that time. So I did go outside and I saw a police van outside and I was shoved into one of the vans. They drove away with me to the Police Station where we were separated and we were put into another van and we were put into various vans - in groups. So in the Police Camp towards early morning, they took us to Beaufort West and they drove on to Oudtshoorn and in Oudtshoorn they again divided us into groups. They sent me to Calitzdorp, together with another man and some other people I do not now. In Calitzdorp - that is where we were for about 2 weeks and were being fed on porridge only. DR RAMASHALA Excuse me, were you a member of any political organization, specifically [indistinct]. MR MAKULANI They kicked me severely, asking me to tell the truth because they said I was - they alleged that I wanted to kill the whites. They beat me up for 3 consecutive days and then on the third day, they left me. They used even to kick me on external genitals and I was swollen . I could not even go to the toilet. DR RAMASHALA [indistinct] how many? MR MAKULANI So I was sick until I got healed and then they took us back home. Excuse me - then we were sent to Court to see the - before the Judge that was from Oudtshoorn. The Court who I was sent to, was in Cape Town, in Supreme Court. Then our case stretched for about 1 year, 6 months in Cape Town and then we were released in June. So that is what happened. DR RAMASHALA Thank you, Mr Makulani. I want to first apologize before I ask the next question. And state that I do not mean to be disrespectful by asking the question. But I need to ask this question because there seem to have been very special ways of torturing men. And you mentioned in your statement that during the torture they kicked you all over and you said including your private parts. MR MAKULANI No, nothing else except that they would take me and facing my head downwards, and they would threaten to throw me down so that I would hit by the head. That was another thing that I had forgotten. DR RAMASHALA Mr Makulani, how is your health today? MR MAKULANI I am - I am ill. I cannot do anything. DR RAMASHALA MR MAKULANI DR RAMASHALA Were you able to - how many children do you have? MR MAKULANI I have 4 children. DR RAMASHALA MR MAKULANI Yes, I do not work. DR RAMASHALA How do you manage at home to take care of your wife and also to raise the children? MR MAKULANI DR RAMASHALA MR MAKULANI DR RAMASHALA What about the next one. MR MAKULANI The second one is a University Student at the University of the Western Cape. DR RAMASHALA How are you paying for them at the university? MR MAKULANI [indistinct] DR RAMASHALA How are you paying for the one at the university? MR MAKULANI DR RAMASHALA How about the third one? MR MAKULANI Then the third is not attending school. DR RAMASHALA How old is she? MR MAKULANI DR RAMASHALA And the last one? MR MAKULANI The last one is the one at the University. DR RAMASHALA Mr Makulani, how are you managing? I mean I know you say your wife is working, but do you get any kind of assistance like old age pension or young age pension? MR MAKULANI Yes, there is. DR RAMASHALA Mr Makulani, thank you very much. I will - Chairperson thank you very much. I wander if my colleagues want to ask questions before I go to Mr Mralasi. CHAIRPERSON Thank you, any questions? DR RAMASHALA Thank you, Mr Mralasi. How are you? MR MRALASI DR RAMASHALA I suppose you two are friends. Am I right? MR MRALASI Yes, we are friends. DR RAMASHALA So you have been helping each other threw out this ordeal? MR MRALASI It happened that, whilst I was still trying to set this stove on, I heard a knock at the door - on the window - and my wife peeped threw the window and say that it was the police. And they came in - they were dressed in heavy coats - and they said: Where is the owner of the house? And then I responded that here I was. Then they said to the other one: You should keep watch on me. And then they were going into the bedroom. One of them tried to pull out the shelve and he emptied the shelve and they started looking at the books that was in the sitting room and also in the bedroom. And at the time, I was in the sitting room together with the children. I had 5 children at that time. Then it happened with time that I asked what they actually wanted from me. Then they said I would get the information once I get there. Then my wife asked what is it that I will hear. Then they said they were going to bring me back. Then they said that they are going to take me away - then I asked them there they taking me to. And I asked them where exactly because I wanted my family to know where they were taking me to. And I could see that they where very serious and I suspected that something was drastically wrong and I did not even think that it was a - connected with politics. So we went away and outside I saw there where vans all over - in all the streets, even behind the hill there were many of these vans - police vans - and I just said to myself this was very serious. So I went out. They pushed me into the van. I saw Mr Maroma inside the van - Mr Maroma - I found him in the van and asked why he was there. And he could not tell. So the vans drove away to - and these people who arresting us, were very happy and I could - I was suspicious that something was up their sleeves. Because we came from a very small town, so there were many of us and we knew each other. So they took us and asked us to keep quiet. With - there were many of them - the yard here before the Police Station was just full of people. Then there was an instruction that two of us should be taken and we should be divided into small groups and then the Police van drove towards Beaufort West. And got to the Police Station and this white man who were - they were very happy, I could see. And I kept on talking to myself, wondering that what was actually wrong, but I could not tell what it was. And then the vans drove away - some of us were dropped in Oudtshoorn - some were dropped in George - some were dropped in Calitzdorp and I was there in Calitzdorp for 3 weeks, eating porridge they had mixed with salt - a lot of salt - that was watery because I was angry, I would mistake it for sugar. And they intentionally mixed this porridge with salt and I kept on wondering what actually had we done because I could see this was something very serious. Right, I was there in Calitzdorp and later Mr Makulani joined me and we shared a cell and I asked him where he was coming from, and then he said he came from Oudtshoorn - where he had been beaten up - and even blood came out of his ear, to an extend that he could not hear properly. Then I asked him what was wrong. Then he said no they say we are members of the PAC - of the Poqo wing - then I was surprised. There were other men who had been arrested with us and they had been taken and made State Witnesses against giving evidence about us. And before long Mr Makulani was removed from there and I was left with Mr Maroma. And I asked them since when had that been happening but they - Poqo had been happening in Victoria West. Then he said it was three years but he had just come - but he knew everything. So they gave an instruction that I should be taken away and be locked in. They tried to beat me but I blocked. So I was locked in back to the cell. We were taken one by one. That is where we are going to appear in Court, so we got into the van, where we found some children and some women who had come to see us and women were crying - my wife was big at that time, but today she is very thin from suffering. Because what happened really, made her very sore - her heart very sore. So we were taken and transferred to - passed Beaufort West we were transferred to - Laingsburg and they said we were going to spend a night in Worcester in a jail called Dronkhel and in Worcester twenty six of us, with other men we found there, we were given accommodation to sleep. Then the following morning I can point out the way we were handled where as I done nothing. Then ...[intervention] DR RAMASHALA Mr Mralasi, may I just interrupt. You said the way you were handled - could you be specific about that. MR MRALASI DR RAMASHALA Were you beaten when you were in Calitzdorp? MR MRALASI No. DR RAMASHALA And in Victoria West? MR MRALASI DR RAMASHALA MR MRALASI There is quite a lot - a lot of - I would even asked that you should extend my time because I have a lot to say because it happened twenty six years ago. It happened in 1968 up to now. So in Worcester we spent a night there and then in the morning Sentile Bavata together with a man dressed in white came and said - said - he was going to speak Afrikaans to me and ask me to open - and ask me to go in. There was also an old man, Madgali, who was an old man - who was quite old, even, I would say the age of the bishop. Then he went in - we asked him to go in - and this bewaarder - then we thought we were going to keep him there in the room amongst us. So early in the morning - the next morning - we were taken to Pollsmoor and there were twenty six of us at the time. At the reception they wrote particulars about our age, about our marital status et cetera, taking all the details. At about this time there was a sheet of paper with names like Thike, Willie Manene and we asked these bewaarders what was all this about. Then this Willie had evidence in this case and had he - his name appeared on this page. Then they - the allegation was that we were going to be put in poison in the - in the dam and were going to disconnect the electricity. Because on the side of Victoria East there is a hill and we as twenty six, as we were - we were - referred to as an army. And they alleged that we were going to lay there and we were going to take over the whole town and that was not true. We were there for two months and then in July lawyers came to see us - Mr Vallem, Mr Wayne Peffer, Zeckelwitch and Former Kellis. There were four of them - two lawyers defending thirteen, two other lawyers thirteen of us. So we gave statements and after that we were told that on a certain day in August we were going to appear in Court. Then it happens that in August we appear in Court - that was in Pollsmoor. They used to take us from Pollsmoor to the Courts - to the Court - that was Wednesday to Friday. Then weekends we would spend then in Pollsmoor and there it was slightly better. We could read newspapers, we could write letters home. I even wrote a letter to my family and tell them that I was healthy and my wife would respond to my letters to. And she told me that we had got a baby - a baby boy. My wife had - my wife had a baby two months old - born on the 6th of May 1968. DR RAMASHALA This was a month after you have - you were detained? MR MRALASI Yes, because I last saw them on the 24th of April and we were kept in most - in - Pollsmoor and we got a chance to write letters home. Are you now satisfied? DR RAMASHALA You were released on the 30th of April in 1969. Could you tell us what happened after that. MR MRALASI They said to me - they called me as number 26 so I went to the front and they said to me - I have left out something - the witnesses were Willie Manene, Wilson Mafoeja, Sedeso Pagalitha, Distant Phambo and ...[intervention] DR RAMASHALA MR MRALASI I kept on saying they should call Alfiuns because I was Alwinus. So Mr Brunette paged through his statements for quite a while. It was even longer than five minutes and the lawyers were watching and other men were all watching. And the judge then asked me if I knew Mr Jose - then I said I knew him. I said yes I was calling him as Chawhe, in his clan name. DR RAMASHALA MR MRALASI I would say even now as you are looking at me, those days, we the elderly people, we did not have any activities. We are not members of any organizations. DR RAMASHALA At that time that the police picked up all of you, were there any Poqo activities in Victoria West? MR MRALASI DR RAMASHALA MR MRALASI DR RAMASHALA How are you managing? I know that your - your - children really came out well in spite of the problems. How are you managing today? MR MRALASI DR RAMASHALA Thank you very much. I will ask the Chair - thank you Chairperson - I will ask my colleagues. CHAIRPERSON Joyce Seroke. MS SEROKE Question in Xhosa MR MRALASI No, they did not have it. They did not show any paper to me. MS SEROKE Question in Xhosa MR MRALASI It was easy if they had charged me for politics because I could have shown then the book. One other I have omitted is - which I would like to explain here in this gathering is - that Thequewe Willie Manene was a member of the Methodist and he accused me, together with his brother and another brother of his. I must tell you everything that I taught about him so that one could make a story out of this. Willie Manene - I hated him for five years, I even wanted to stab him to death - stab him because he had hurt me and he implicated me and said I was there in that meeting. And he said I was - we were hiding. I had intentions to stab him. I opened the door and I saw a white man who asked me whether I wanted a car. Then I said no. I had last seen Willie in 1968, in court. At the time he was wiping the car and he saw me as I was moving slowly towards him. In fact a person who was guilty, will always spot you and you know this is the truth. So I went in greeted him and I asked him how he was and I asked him to go out with me. We went outside and he stood there and he had some difficulty to talk. And I was surprised what was wrong with him and I looked at him and I could see there was real change in him. He had gone through a lot of suffering - he had gone through a lot of suffering. I could see, it showed on his face and I asked why are you like this. Do your people know that you are like this? Then he said no. I asked him about Frans Manene, Samuel Manene. Then I asked him if I could see Samuel to give him some messages. Then he said yes, he said he was suffering from high blood pressure, he had pains on his hip and his son to was ill treating and beating him. I could see he was finished, I then called my wife and even that one, who was born when I was detained. I called all them - all of them - and I said Willie here are your children because we had the same clan name. So he greeted them. Then I said these are your children, you can see they are old. Then he said: Are you still going on with this. Then I said to my wife: Look at this person, how he looks like. And I asked my wife to take out one pound and give it to this man so that he could buy food for himself. And that was the last I saw of him. He never went back to his house, he never went to see his family. He went to hospital and that was the end of his life. So when he asked me how I had come there, I said I had come in a car. So I went there, I drove out the car and he was standing there. So today you have allowed me to say everything to you and everything that has been locked in within my heart now, you have allowed me to have a clean breast of - so I am not even embarrassed today. You can go to my house, you will be surprised because God is like those old bottles of wine that used to be closed with a cork and if you were to fill in a bucket with water and then you take that cork and put it into that water, that water will not sink, it will float. Thank you, I thank you for all you have done for me. MS BURTON And that under cross examination it had become apparent that his answers were quite clearly false and that he was prepared to tell lies. He admitted that he had lied during a similar trial in Port Elizabeth and the judge said, and I quote his words: It made a person shudder to think that some one, like X54, could be placed in a position where he had an interest in the arrest of members of the public. UNKNOWN COMMISSIONER MR MRALASI Some are there in Victoria West, others died. Let me say we were two groups of people. We were first arrested on the 24th of April and another group was arrested in June, in 1968. Those went to court in Oudtshoorn but their is not here at he moment. And we went to court - went to the Supreme Court but we heard that William, Frans Manene, were sentenced three years and this surprised us and this was told to us by Mr Wayne Peffer. We wondered whether those people, who were - those people who were after us and then they were sentenced but were still going to court. Then there was promised to work on this. They were in Victor Verster and they were told that their case had been closed, they should go home. I heard one women saying this child is really hurting and damaging my heart and I would ask how did this happen. And yet he actually mend the actions. Even those men who died - because even during our absence people would die and then our wives would have to go and dig and conduct funerals and this was really hurting. There was a division because there were - those were witnesses and they were wives that really enjoying it and they were dressing well, where is our wives who were suffering at the time. So those who were suffering used to go and dig holes for the graves - to make graves. CHAIRPERSON I thank you, let me say that your brother that - your son that you did not mention, now tell us what happened to your son. MR MRALASI My son, thank you - thank you, Bishop. So I pay - I kept my son at school after I was discharged and that time we used to use slates. In 1968 my son was doing Sub B and he used to write on a slate with a pencil and so he went on with his studies until he got to Standard 6 and I could not pay for his fees. Then I said to him: This does not work. I actually want to see your bank book, and he did show it to me and at that time he had saved R600.00. Then I asked him what he was going to do with the money. Then he said the following week he intended packing and going home and going back to school and he [indistinct] did exactly that. He brought the money with him and we decided to go and make a loan of money and we got R400-00. Those days it was not very expensive to pay in schools because we added this R400-00 to the R600-00 that he had, to make R1,000-00 and I asked him whether he wanted to go back to school. So he stated the time when he wanted to go back to school. And then there was another daughter of mine who also wanted to go to a school in Fort Beaufort - a certain school in Fort Beaufort she wanted to go to is Thubaleto High School, which is a [indistinct] College thing. So we decided to make this effort and we got the loan, I drove them to Fort Beaufort and they went into this school. So that is where my son got his education. He spent two years there and he said it was not good for him in Allies. He wanted to go to the Cape College in Western Cape, so I agreed. There was no problem with the books and so he transferred to the Western Cape and he went on studying. We were going up and down trying to collect money, trying to channel moneys to the various schools. We were eating dry porridge with water and sugar, trying to save and keep them in school. Then it happened in - one day we were invited to a graduation ceremony, and so went there by train and up to Beaufort West because there had been accident with the train. Then there was a bus. We boarded the bus to Cape Town and went to another relative of ours. We stayed there for the days and this particular morning we saw Joos sitting there. I still have a clear picture and I can see him dressed in his regalia - academic regalia. Today he has - he is studying his LL.B., he has studied his LL.B. and he is working in Aliwal North. That is my son - that is our son. Thank you. CHAIRPERSON Dr Ramashala. DR RAMASHALA Mr Mralasi, and Mr Makulani you have an incredible history and I think it would be a shame if you were to pass on without that history being recorded for the children in Victoria West. Have you thought about tape recording the information so that it is kept as part of the museum and left for the community in Victoria West. MR MRALASI CHAIRPERSON We therefore thank that the judge talked in the manner in which Mary Burton explained to us and he decided to release you. But let us all say - let us observe that freedom. We had to pay a very big price for it and in most cases people think that all these things happen only in Soweto, in Cape Town, in Durban and they tend to forget that this is just all over, especially in those hidden places. This Commission helps therefore to let us know that our people were really suffering all over - not only in Soweto or in Cape Town, but in all the places. And we therefor must thank you and lift up our caps and say the price that you paid makes us remember and not to forget that we should play about with the freedom we have got. We also thank that - we thank you that - God also touched your heart when you saw this man, that you intended to kill and you also listened when God said to you look at his condition. And you had, as you mentioned. All the people in here were quiet at the time because I think even God at that time was touching our souls and reminding us that there are many wounds that are within us. But what we are trying to do at the moment to give you that key you mentioned - the key that opens the hearts so that you are able to say everything and by so doing you feel as if someone is putting some oil in those wounds - to heal those wounds, so that we should all thank God for giving us this time. And God forgiving us that we should - we should not have hatred. We should not want to revenges ourselves, we should reconcile instead and we should except one another so that this land that went through all this, should be blessed by God and God should place us in a position where we shall be exemplary to Rwanda, to Burundi and we point back to our past. And say to them, here we are today, united we are. We therefor thank you so much, I thank you. Thank you, may God bless you too and keep you and take care of you - even your families as well, because God says what can you do to men and he places you in a very wide place. I thank you. We are now going to take a break for lunch, let us all stand as the witnesses removes them from their places, please.