hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION HEARINGS 1996-08-13 BEAUFORT WEST 2 CT/00585 MASINDA FATYELA MASINDA FATYELA TORTURE BY POLICE https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=54968&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/beaufort/ct00585.htm DR RAMASHALA Mr Fatyela, good morning can you hear me? MR FATYELA Yes, I can hear you. DR RAMASHALA Okay. MASINDA FATYELA Duly sworn states DR RAMASHALA Chairperson to facilitate the testimony of Mr Fatyela is Adv Denzil Potgieter. ADV POTGIETER MR FATYELA Good afternoon. ADV POTGIETER You are from Richmond, is that correct? MR FATYELA ADV POTGIETER Can you just very briefly just tell us who you are, something about yourself before we talk of the incident that you want to tell us about. MR FATYELA Thank you, my name is Masinda - my full name Masinda Phifakela, my clang name is Xhati, I live in Richmond in Sabello. I like music and sport and I play rugby - I am not married. ADV POTGIETER Well thank you very much for that, what do you do at the moment. Are you employed or what - what do you do? MR FATYELA ADV POTGIETER The story you want to tell us relates to 1985 at a time when you were still at school. In fact you were then at Ixaya Combined Junior Secondary School in Richmond, is that correct? MR FATYELA ADV POTGIETER What standard were you doing there? MR FATYELA I was doing Std 6 then. ADV POTGIETER And [indistinct] you were then a member of the SRC at the school ? MR FATYELA ADV POTGIETER And the incident happened around October of that year - of 1985 - is that correct? MR FATYELA ADV POTGIETER And you were in fact arrested at school by the police and removed from the school premises, is that so? MR FATYELA ADV POTGIETER And can you tell us what happened when you were arrested at - by the police and taken away? MR FATYELA Thank you sir, at Sabello school we had a meeting together with parents. We were the SRC, our parents who were there at the location. We had this discussion that was to be in town and these parents were no going be there and this discussion was going to be in town, so we were still discussing where - which day we should go to the white school and talk about certain matters of Ixaya because Ixaya was backward there - there were no facilities and people were not helping. So whilst we were there parents came because they had been called by the teachers because there were 3 teachers that were not wanted there - 2 of these still teach there in Richmond but one is not teaching. Whilst we were still talking policemen came into our school. Firstly they wanted to find out what we were busy with as student, then we said no these - this is a problem that was effecting our parents and us only. Then we got an instruction from one of the teachers who was present there at the time - this was a teacher by the name Zongezile Mtona and he said the police were looking for 3 teachers because they were the teachers who were teaching politics in that school. Then they hired a car belonging to the late Galolo which was a blue Kombi - some of us - of the students got into this Kombi and they were waiting outside - of these students were taken to Stadssaal - City Hall - where you were going to have this meeting. 12 of us could not get transport and some of the members remained behind, so we walked to the place but on our way next to the coloured - in the coloured area next to a shop owned by Mvengo - and next to this shop there was a clinic - we stood just between the clinic and the shop and we saw a blue car - Mazda car stopping there - it was stopped - parked at the clinic. Then he directed us into the van - we got into the van hurriedly, they drove us down to the Police Station and at the Police Station they asked us to wait behind the counter - they were there with us. Then two policemen - black policemen, Thabo and Adjutant and others came, they were Ruiters, Blom, quite a group of policemen. Two black policemen went out leaving the white policemen with us and instruction was that we should burn. And he asked who had burnt the clinic and this Special Branch was standing and listening and he said we were responsible for the burning and this persons was saying - was Adjutant and they wanted to ask who was responsible for the burning of the clinic and he called Boetietjie - who was a - he was of a Genini Kobo family and he responded and he said you respond and they asked for Koebo and there was no Koebo amongst us - it was just a slogan that was used in the location to mean that there was problems. They would take me out of the toilet - the others were not aware of all this and they would make me stand in front of the cell where there was dirty water with leaves. I would sometimes think of jumping, then I jumped over and they asked me why I was jumping. They would take me back and held me with my legs and the other one was holding me at the back. They forced me into this dirty water, they hit me with their fists and one said: Lets forgive him. And that was Thabo saying that. Then they said: Lets take him to show to the other people. And the cell was full of water, they ask me to sit down and they said they were not through with him - they were - with me they were coming back. Adjutant came and his name - Jonk came in and he again beat some others. ADV POTGIETER Thank you Mr Fatyela, how old were you when you went threw this terrible experience? MR FATYELA I was 15 years old at the time and I was at home. ADV POTGIETER And for how long have you been in the police custody, how long did this whole incident last from the time that they took you to the police station until you were let loose, how long did it take about? MR FATYELA ADV POTGIETER MR FATYELA ADV POTGIETER MR FATYELA Yes. ADV POTGIETER MR FATYELA Yes, from morning to the afternoon they were doing the same thing to us. ADV POTGIETER MR FATYELA ADV POTGIETER Were they amongst the perpetrators - amongst the people that assaulted you? MR FATYELA They are the very people - there were 3 of them together with the Special Branch that had been brought in by them. ADV POTGIETER [indistinct] the third one, you said there were 3 of them together with a Special Branch - the third one, who was it? It was - one was Alfred, one was Thabo and who was the third person? MR FATYELA The third was Adjutant Jonk but he was not there outside when all these things happened but he did all these things right there in the police station. ADV POTGIETER [indistinct] the Station Commander the police - he was in charge of the police? MR FATYELA Yes, he was in charge and he is the one who started the beating. ADV POTGIETER [indistinct] was that person from Richmond or was he from else where? MR FATYELA ADV POTGIETER Do you - have you or any of the other people that were with you, have you laid any charges against these policemen? MR FATYELA ADV POTGIETER There was no - there was no sense - what you really saying if I understand you correctly, there is no - there was no sense in going back to the same people who assaulted you to lay a charge against that very same people? MR FATYELA ADV POTGIETER You seemed to have just been picked up and just beaten up for the entire day for no apparent reason, how did you feel after going through that experience? MR FATYELA ADV POTGIETER [indistinct] you were not charged with anything, you were not charged for having committed any offense, you were just released - you were let loose - you were - they just told you to go home? MR FATYELA And they would begrudge you that if they arrest you they would do something to you - that is what was happening. ADV POTGIETER Just in conclusion it there - is there anything that you would like to ask the Commission to pay attention to, to look into for you? MR FATYELA Then after that I will be happy and I would have - bear no grudge for any one. ADV POTGIETER MR FATYELA ADV POTGIETER Is he a policeman? MR FATYELA Yes. ADV POTGIETER What is his - is Alfred his surname of his first name? MR FATYELA Alfred is his first name and his surname is Mongweni - his full name is Alfred Mongweni. ADV POTGIETER Is he still a policeman in Richmond? MR FATYELA ADV POTGIETER [indistinct] just very clearly and in public that the Commission would obviously take a very serious few if anyone who comes to us and testifies, tell his or her story is approached and intimidated or acted against because of that very fact that he or she has approached the Commission. We - as I say - would regard that in a very, very, very serious light and we would obviously act quite swiftly against a person who were to - to consider doing that or were to do that. So I just like to - to take note of that and to have that assurance from us. MR FATYELA Thank you. MS SEROKE Mr Fatyela when did you [indistinct] your hearing problem. Was it before you were arrested or after you were arrested? MR FATYELA This is just recent - in this recent years after I was arrested. MS SEROKE MR FATYELA What I think is, it was a result of the beating because I was beaten by a boxer, Alfred, and he did not just give me one beating - he beat me several times. I went as far as Std 6. MS SEROKE [indistinct] arrested? MR FATYELA MS SEROKE MR FATYELA Yes - no, I think I have a problem though I am interested but I have a problem now. MS SEROKE MR FATYELA If I were to - it is a secret if I were to talk to you in camera I would tell you about it. MS SEROKE And you say Alfred is still in your community? MR FATYELA MS SEROKE Have you [indistinct] MR FATYELA MS SEROKE MR FATYELA MS SEROKE You would like to meat with Alfred and talk about this, would you? MR FATYELA MS SEROKE Are there any tensions in the township because of the presence of these people who were harassing you and everybody else? MR FATYELA What do you mean - you mean these ...[intervention] MS SEROKE [indistinct] arrest people and - people like Alfred. MR FATYELA MS SEROKE Richard - some people who had testified before you, like Ms Nonight they made mention of some conflict that makes you unhappy where you live. They were saying the policemen are responsible for it - was Alfred amongst those policemen who caused this conflict? MR FATYELA I would say when they went into this location first, Alfred was amongst them - he was driving in one of the vans. He was with Captain and from the Police Station and other policemen. MS SEROKE MR FATYELA I would say it would be very difficult to meat them and be united once more because they come to our locations, small as it is, and once they see you or they see a drunk person they arrest that person and then how would you be charting with such people. If they see you walking up and about they make a display of people. MS SEROKE Is Jonk still there? MR FATYELA No. MS SEROKE You made mention of a clinic that was burnt, why was it burnt? MR FATYELA MS SEROKE You mentioned many policemen, Alfred, Thabo and Ruiters and Blom and one female witness said that in addition to this policemen who were used, there used to be some reserves who came from the farms. Have you ever seen such reserves during these incidents that you had, that is that time? MR FATYELA Yes, that is the - true, I could give this as an example: when my father died on - on - in the location there were De Vries, who is the owner of Oasis - he was one of the reserves - and one lawyer from our residential area and many others who were from the farms. These people who had just been taken to come and help in our - in the beating of us. And those were supposed to be doing the main job, were hiding behind these people. MS SEROKE And these reserves were beating? MR FATYELA Yes, they were beating us. MS SEROKE Thank you. MS BURTON MR FATYELA I also thank you.